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Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: sielos ilgesys] #382328 06/29/12 08:55 PM
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The number of bars, or "fonts" is not something embedded in Holy Tradition, but simply a custom that arose among status conscious hierarchs.

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: Curious Joe] #382334 06/30/12 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Curious Joe
Originally Posted by Pani Rose
THEY DID! THEY DID!


They did, indeed! (although I relied on my DVR to catch it - hope you got some rest afterward, Pani Rose!)


Nope! But enjoyed watching him receive it. Just the look on his face as they did the close up of them processing in, was worth $$$$$$. It was like, how did I get here?

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: sielos ilgesys] #382353 06/30/12 03:55 AM
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I am confused. Why would an Eastern hierarch who is given the omophorion at his Ordination as part of the vestments of his office and ministry have it reimposed on him?

Metropolitan William has worn the omophorion since his ordination as bishop.

Since the pallium is a Latin vestment only given to Roman archbishops who head a province of the Roman Church why would a Metropolitan-Archbishop, head of a sui-juris Church be given either palluim or omophorion?

This was done in the presence of a delegation from the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Rome with salutations from the EP for the feast of the Apostels Peter and Paul. What does this say to the Orthodox regarding the fears they have about reunion through "sumbmission" to Rome?

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: Pani Rose] #382364 06/30/12 12:03 PM
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sielos ilgesys Offline OP
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Maybe more like, "what am I doing here?" Kinda like the expressions on the faces of a bride and/or groom at many a wedding.

Last edited by sielos ilgesys; 06/30/12 12:05 PM.
Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: sielos ilgesys] #382365 06/30/12 12:37 PM
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Glory be to Jesus Christ!!

Why do they continue to do this stuff in Rome? I just don't get it.

Look at the vesture of Pope Benedict and his Masters of Ceremony. Does it say "Pio Nono" to you?

Maybe what is needed is for everyone in rome to read the Circular Letter of the Eastern Patriarchs (1848) to Pio Nono each time they get ready to do or say or act to or toward a member of the Eastern Catholic Churches, and especially when they begin to have any interaction with members of the Orthodox Churches.

In Christ,

Bob

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: Pop] #382367 06/30/12 01:28 PM
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sielos ilgesys Offline OP
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I reckon a Byzantine bishop can never have too many omophoria - besides, because of their size, they're harder to misplace than the Latin pallium.

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: theophan] #382368 06/30/12 01:30 PM
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Slava Isusu Khrestu

I am sorry to ask a foolish question but who were those two on either side of the Pope with mitres and dressed like deacons. Were those some kind of special ranked deacons? I have never seen this before.


Ignorant and unworthy

Kolya

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: sielos ilgesys] #382370 06/30/12 02:38 PM
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Garajotsi


What Mitres ?

I don't see mitres in this pic posted earlier

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: Garajotsi] #382374 06/30/12 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Garajotsi
Slava Isusu Khrestu

I am sorry to ask a foolish question but who were those two on either side of the Pope with mitres and dressed like deacons. Were those some kind of special ranked deacons? I have never seen this before.


Ignorant and unworthy

Kolya

They are cardinal deacons.

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: sielos ilgesys] #382376 06/30/12 06:03 PM
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I'm sorry, but I can't celebrate Rome's continued ineptness in dealing with Eastern Catholics.
How can the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, etc. interpret the head of a sui juris Church in communion with Rome *kneeling* before the Pope and having *another* omophorion placed on him but as a act of submission?
The better question is, does Rome think the Ecumenical Patriarch, the Patriarch of Moscow, the Pope of Alexandria, etc. would find these sorts of actions acceptable? If the answer is no, Rome should immediately cease them in respect of the dignity of the Eastern Churches and their traditions (as Rome herself has said should be the case). If Rome answers yes, we have bigger problems. (I really think it would be a simple process for Rome to ask this question every time an action concerning the East is contemplated.)
The Eastern Catholic bishops should politely, but firmly decline any and all such gestures and structures that suggest a subservient status to the Bishop of Rome.
That being said, I think the act of requesting and giving the pallium to be a beautiful tradition as a sign of communion, but it cannot be done in any way that might even suggest that they derive their authority from the Pope.

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: sielos ilgesys] #382391 07/01/12 03:49 AM
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Two other amazing things from that ceremony:

1. The Westminster Abbey choir (Anglican) was the guest choir, and I've never heard a Papal Mass that sounded so beautiful. They've got the Sistine Chapel choir beat by a mile.

2. The Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople sent a representative, and I loved watching him exchange the sign of peace with the Pope. Awesome.

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: Pop] #382393 07/01/12 07:13 AM
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Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: ag_vn] #382394 07/01/12 07:32 AM
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Hopefully Metroplitans Jan and William will get themselves real omophorions instead of those sewen up ones that are thankfully going back out of fashion among the various Byzantine Catholic Bishops.

cool

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: theophan] #382395 07/01/12 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by theophan

Look at the vesture of Pope Benedict and his Masters of Ceremony. Does it say "Pio Nono" to you?


If we want the Byzantine tradition to be always the same without the minimal change in any detail (such as the vesture), how can we get worried up if the Roman Church re-appropriated of the own historical liturgical tradition (which is by the way by far older than the blessed Pius IX)

Re: Pope Benedict's gift to Metr. William [Re: antv] #382399 07/01/12 01:28 PM
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Hello to Our Lady's slave

I watched some of the proceedings at a friends house on Ewtn television. In there , on either side of the pope, were two mitres in the heads of two clergy who looked like deacons.

KOlya

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