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#382386 - 07/01/12 02:31 AM Re: The Throne [Re: sielos ilgesys]
Roman Interloper Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 324
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: sielos ilgesys
Carved into stone, over the main doors of Annunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Houston (on Yoakum Bl. in the Montrose district) are the words "Hellenic Eastern Orthodox Church." I always figured that to some folks "Hellenic" sounds more high-falutin' than "Greek."


I kind of figured it was just a matter of fancy as opposed to being indicative of a different Church than the Greek Orthodox Church. It is in a somewhat prestigious neighborhood; perhaps that explains the more rarified designation "Hellenic" as opposed to the more common "Greek"...that's just for the hoi polloi I suppose.

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#382438 - 07/02/12 02:13 PM Re: The Throne [Re: akemner]
DMD Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 1197
Loc: Upstate New York
Originally Posted By: akemner
Originally Posted By: sielos ilgesys
Carved into stone, over the main doors of Annunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Houston (on Yoakum Bl. in the Montrose district) are the words "Hellenic Eastern Orthodox Church." I always figured that to some folks "Hellenic" sounds more high-falutin' than "Greek."


Thus it is at our GOA parish in Cedar Rapids. I don't think it's any more high falutin' than "Greek", but since the Greece in Greek is "Hellas" and Greeks are "Helleni," maybe it's more correct. I always thought of "Greek" as Hellenic culture, but not limited to the Hellenes. In a sense, it included Arabs, Copts, Italians, and Slavs.


That's an expansive view for sure. I personally don't feel any emotional attachment to Hellenism as an American of Slavic heritage. I have attended more than my share of functions at GOA where the non-Hellenes were received well but always felt that we were somehow like the representatives of the neighboring 'allies' of the ByzantineEmpire - sort of like civilized barbarians - but still.... Sort of unfair of me I suppose, but I often felt that concern and pride over Hellenism seemed greater to some than concern and pride over the Faith - same can be said though for any number of Orthodox nationalities.....In fairness, many do equate the two (Hellenism (or nationality) and Orthodoxy) as being inextricably bound together....I tend to view this approach as short sighted and ultimately injurious to the Faith - especially in the US and Canada.

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#382442 - 07/02/12 03:34 PM Re: The Throne [Re: Roman Interloper]
Fr Mark Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 780
Loc: Wales
When I taught in a Greek school, the head - a Pontic Greek - insisted that he was Romios not Hellene. He saw Hellenism as nationalistic and exclusive, built on a modern myth full of obsessions with Hellenistic pagan culture.

As a pious Christian Greek, he conisdered himself a Byzantine and heir of the East Roman empire. He saw all Orthodox people, especially those who could manage some Greek, to be co-heirs and fellow Romios. The rest of the staff despised him for that, saw him as unpatriotic and were exclusive.

As stated above they saw all other Orthodox people as near savages - though they themselves had no interest in Orthodoxy apart from Pascha, weddings and a doxologia on Independence Day. The most sacred day of the year seemed to be Oxi Day.

I for one do not see Hellenic culture as extending to Arabs, Copts, Italians, and Slavs. Byzantine culture yes, but that's a different thing.

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#382454 - 07/02/12 08:56 PM Re: The Throne [Re: Fr Mark]
DMD Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 1197
Loc: Upstate New York
Originally Posted By: Fr Mark
When I taught in a Greek school, the head - a Pontic Greek - insisted that he was Romios not Hellene. He saw Hellenism as nationalistic and exclusive, built on a modern myth full of obsessions with Hellenistic pagan culture.

As a pious Christian Greek, he conisdered himself a Byzantine and heir of the East Roman empire. He saw all Orthodox people, especially those who could manage some Greek, to be co-heirs and fellow Romios. The rest of the staff despised him for that, saw him as unpatriotic and were exclusive.

As stated above they saw all other Orthodox people as near savages - though they themselves had no interest in Orthodoxy apart from Pascha, weddings and a doxologia on Independence Day. The most sacred day of the year seemed to be Oxi Day.

I for one do not see Hellenic culture as extending to Arabs, Copts, Italians, and Slavs. Byzantine culture yes, but that's a different thing.


The distinction between Hellenic and Byzantine culture is well stated in terms of cultural influence over the other Orthodox and Eastern Christian peoples who are not Hellenists.

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#382455 - 07/02/12 10:21 PM Re: The Throne [Re: DMD]
Pavel Ivanovich Offline
Member

Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 2834
Loc: Western Australia
A Greek politician visiting Australia a few years ago said during an interview that the problem for the modern Greek state was it did not know if it was Hellas or Romios. He also talked about the influence of the romantics from western Europe that really established the indepedence of the then tiny Greek kingdom. I have met people from Syria who describe themselves as Rumi.

cool

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#382456 - 07/02/12 10:54 PM Re: The Throne [Re: DMD]
Fr Mark Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 780
Loc: Wales
Originally Posted By: DMD
Originally Posted By: Fr Mark
When I taught in a Greek school, the head - a Pontic Greek - insisted that he was Romios not Hellene. He saw Hellenism as nationalistic and exclusive, built on a modern myth full of obsessions with Hellenistic pagan culture.

As a pious Christian Greek, he conisdered himself a Byzantine and heir of the East Roman empire. He saw all Orthodox people, especially those who could manage some Greek, to be co-heirs and fellow Romios. The rest of the staff despised him for that, saw him as unpatriotic and were exclusive.

As stated above they saw all other Orthodox people as near savages - though they themselves had no interest in Orthodoxy apart from Pascha, weddings and a doxologia on Independence Day. The most sacred day of the year seemed to be Oxi Day.

I for one do not see Hellenic culture as extending to Arabs, Copts, Italians, and Slavs. Byzantine culture yes, but that's a different thing.


The distinction between Hellenic and Byzantine culture is well stated in terms of cultural influence over the other Orthodox and Eastern Christian peoples who are not Hellenists.


... not only cultural influence, but cultural patrimony as co-heirs and fellow Byzantines - at least within the former Byzantine commonwealth. The successor states that preserved Byzantine culture after the fall of the City showed that Hellenism isn't needed for Byzantine identity. Moldavo-Valachia proved this very well! Byzance apres Byzance.

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