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Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: Fr. Jim] #382711
07/10/12 01:18 AM
07/10/12 01:18 AM
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PA
Thomas the Seeker Offline
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I am deeply saddened.

I met JONAH at the assembly of the Anglican Church of North America last month. He gave an impassioned address to the assembly imploring the continued partnership of "catholic orthodox" believers (his phrase).

If his resignation increases opportunity of a strenthened and more united witness soli Deo Gloria.

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: Utroque] #382715
07/10/12 02:17 AM
07/10/12 02:17 AM
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Posts: 2,735
The Third Rome
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The Greeks do not have a canonical leg to stand on for even being able to have an archdiocese in North America. Canonically, the OCA coming under Constantinople is a non starter. The concept of ROCOR coming under the Phanar is laughable.

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: Slavipodvizhnik] #382717
07/10/12 04:24 AM
07/10/12 04:24 AM
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Fatherhood
Nelson Chase Offline
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The anti-canonical situation of American Orthodoxy is very tragic....it brings to the forefront that yes the Church needs a strong primacy to help out in situations like North American Orthodoxy.

To be fair Eastern Catholics of the Byzantine tradition struggle with much of the same problems even with a strong primacy but if Rome wanted to and our hierarchy had the will canonical union of the Greek Catholic Churches in America could happen. I am not sure of American Orthodoxy.

Prayers for Metropolitan Jonah and the OCA.

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: Carson Daniel] #382725
07/10/12 01:00 PM
07/10/12 01:00 PM
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Chicago
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IAlmisry Offline
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Originally Posted by Carson Daniel
Given this article it appears I should be thankful that I did not convert to the OCA when the opportunity presented itself in 1999. I praise God that he spared me this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_scandal_in_the_Orthodox_Church_in_America

and what scandal free church did He lead you to?

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: Utroque] #382726
07/10/12 01:09 PM
07/10/12 01:09 PM
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Chicago
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IAlmisry Offline
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Originally Posted by Utroque
Originally Posted by Rybak
Before merger with the GOA, it would make more sense for the OCA and ROCOR to merge. Now THAT would be an interesting development.


It would be an interesting development, indeed, but as a first step. I would like to see both eventually come under GOA. By strength of numbers and by popular perception the Greek Archdiocese is the Orthodox Church of America,or at least, in America. I guess I am uneasy with ROCOR's new-found ties to Moscow. And didn't Metropolitan Jonah's attempts to strengthen ties to the Moscow patriarchia rankle a number of OCA members? In any event, I feel it would greatly strength Orthodox unity in America and advance Orthodoxy worldwide.

LOL. We won't see the OCA nor ROCOR coming under the GOA. Ever.

I question whether it would strengthen Orthodox unity in America. It certainly would set back Orthodoxy worldwide.

According to stats, the strength in numbers of regularly Church goers goes to the OCA. And isn't doing things on popular perception a little dangerous?

Why should strengthening ties to Moscow rankle anyone? Except, of course, some (but not all) Greeks and some (but not all) Ukrainians?

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: IAlmisry] #382727
07/10/12 01:16 PM
07/10/12 01:16 PM
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Posts: 6,186
Walled Lake, Mi
Carson Daniel Offline
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Originally Posted by IAlmisry
Originally Posted by Carson Daniel
Given this article it appears I should be thankful that I did not convert to the OCA when the opportunity presented itself in 1999. I praise God that he spared me this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_scandal_in_the_Orthodox_Church_in_America

and what scandal free church did He lead you to?


Not one at all. I'm Byzantine Catholic. We have had our scandals. Even sexual perversions of a homosexualist nature. Our biggest scandal is our fear of evangelization. But at least we have not broken communion with Rome nor have we had major financial scandals, as far as I know.

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: Slavipodvizhnik] #382728
07/10/12 01:33 PM
07/10/12 01:33 PM
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Posts: 544
Peabody, MA
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Originally Posted by Slavipodvizhnik
The Greeks do not have a canonical leg to stand on for even being able to have an archdiocese in North America. Canonically, the OCA coming under Constantinople is a non starter. The concept of ROCOR coming under the Phanar is laughable.


I knew I'd start a fight. Perhaps it is hopeless. With Rome? NEVER!

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: Apotheoun] #382729
07/10/12 01:56 PM
07/10/12 01:56 PM
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Upstate New York
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DMD Offline
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Originally Posted by Apotheoun
Originally Posted by Rybak
Before merger with the GOA, it would make more sense for the OCA and ROCOR to merge. Now THAT would be an interesting development.

I agree an OCA / ROCOR union makes more sense.


Not going to happen as the pain of the past is still there and the difference in opinion regarding ecumenical affairs is as wide of a gulf as exists within Orthodoxy.

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: Slavipodvizhnik] #382730
07/10/12 01:57 PM
07/10/12 01:57 PM
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Upstate New York
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DMD Offline
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-sigh-

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: Fr. Jim] #382735
07/10/12 03:08 PM
07/10/12 03:08 PM
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Posts: 335
Washington
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Here is the latest news from the OCA:

http://oca.org/news/headline-news/h...aniel-locum-tenens-bishop-michael-tempor

On Monday, July 9, 2012, His Beatitude, Metropolitan Jonah and the members of the Holy Synod of Bishops met via conference call to further discuss His Beatitude’s resignation, as reported earlier on the web site of the Orthodox Church in America.

The hierarchs issued the following statement at the conclusion of their meeting.

“To the Venerable Clergy, Devout Monastics, and Pious Faithful of the Orthodox Church in America:

“Beloved in Christ, Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever!

“On Friday, July 6, 2012, His Beatitude, Metropolitan Jonah, tendered his resignation as Primate of the Orthodox Church in America. The Holy Synod of Bishops, chaired by His Beatitude, Metropolitan Jonah, met via conference call on Saturday, July 7, 2012. During that meeting, the Holy Synod accepted Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation and deliberated on courses of action.

“On Monday, July 9, 2012, the Holy Synod of Bishops, including Metropolitan Jonah, met again via a conference call to continue those deliberations. Metropolitan Jonah will retain the title ‘His Eminence, Metropolitan Jonah, former Archbishop of Washington and Metropolitan of All-America and Canada.’

“The Holy Synod has appointed the senior hierarch of the Holy Synod, His Eminence, the Most Reverend Nathaniel, Archbishop of Detroit and the Romanian Episcopate, as the Locum Tenens of the Orthodox Church in America. His Eminence, Archbishop Nathaniel will be commemorated in the Liturgy as ‘His Eminence the Most Reverend Nathaniel, Archbishop of Detroit and the Romanian Episcopate, Locum Tenens of the Orthodox Church in America.’

“The Holy Synod has appointed His Grace, the Right Reverend Michael, Bishop of New York and the Diocese of New York and New Jersey, as the Administrator of the Orthodox Church in America.

“The Holy Synod has appointed His Grace, the Right Reverend Alexander, Bishop of Toledo and the Bulgarian Archdiocese, as the Locum Tenens of the Archdiocese of Washington. His Grace will be commemorated in the Liturgy as ‘His Grace, the Right Reverend Alexander, Bishop of Toledo and the Bulgarian Archdiocese, Locum Tenens of the Archdiocese of Washington.’

“The Holy Synod of Bishops is currently discussing arrangements with Metropolitan Jonah and, with all due pastoral consideration, will take into account his requests as outlined in his letter of resignation. The Holy Synod of Bishops will also meet in due time to discuss future plans for the leadership of the Church.

“The Holy Synod thanks Metropolitan Jonah for his considerate decision and requests that the Clergy and Faithful keep Metropolitan Jonah and the Orthodox Church in America in their prayers.

“Assuring you of Our Archpastoral Blessing, We are,

“The Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America.”


Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: DMD] #382736
07/10/12 03:09 PM
07/10/12 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DMD
Originally Posted by Apotheoun
Originally Posted by Rybak
Before merger with the GOA, it would make more sense for the OCA and ROCOR to merge. Now THAT would be an interesting development.

I agree an OCA / ROCOR union makes more sense.


Not going to happen as the pain of the past is still there and the difference in opinion regarding ecumenical affairs is as wide of a gulf as exists within Orthodoxy.

The OCA would benefit by a little more pan-Orthodoxy and a little less ecumenism with non-Orthodox.

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: IAlmisry] #382738
07/10/12 03:48 PM
07/10/12 03:48 PM
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Quote
Why should strengthening ties to Moscow rankle anyone? Except, of course, some (but not all) Greeks and some (but not all) Ukrainians?

It is a discliplinary affair between two Orthodox jurisdictions. As such it should be worked out (or not) by them alone. I don't think too many Ukrainians, Greek Catholic or Orthodox, are going to be "rankled" in North America. It is for those two jurisdictions to decide the best way forward or, more likely, maintain the current status.

I pray and wish the best for the OCA. I have very fond memories of my time spent in OCA parishes.

Quote
According to stats, the strength in numbers of regularly Church goers goes to the OCA.

Precisely, and that's why in spite of this bump in the road the OCA will be fine.

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: Carson Daniel] #382740
07/10/12 04:18 PM
07/10/12 04:18 PM
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IAlmisry Offline
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Originally Posted by Carson Daniel
Originally Posted by IAlmisry
Originally Posted by Carson Daniel
Given this article it appears I should be thankful that I did not convert to the OCA when the opportunity presented itself in 1999. I praise God that he spared me this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_scandal_in_the_Orthodox_Church_in_America

and what scandal free church did He lead you to?


Not one at all. I'm Byzantine Catholic. We have had our scandals. Even sexual perversions of a homosexualist nature. Our biggest scandal is our fear of evangelization. But at least we have not broken communion with Rome nor have we had major financial scandals, as far as I know.

LOL.

Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: Rybak] #382744
07/10/12 04:52 PM
07/10/12 04:52 PM
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DMD Offline
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Isn't Archbishop Nathaniel a convert to Orthodoxy from the Romanian Greek Catholic community? Bishop Michael's father's side of the family were and are Greek Catholics from SS. Peter and Paul BCC in Endicott, NY.

Last edited by DMD; 07/10/12 04:53 PM.
Re: Metropolitan Jonah tenders resignation [Re: DMD] #382748
07/10/12 06:13 PM
07/10/12 06:13 PM
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Oregon
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Yes, Archbishop Nathaniel is a former Eastern Catholic. It's mentioned here (towards the end of the article) in Fr. David Kirk's life story.

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