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#387896 - 11/06/12 05:53 PM What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in?
ConstantineTG Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 308
Loc: At the Eastern Crossroads
I've never had someone give me a straight answer. Can I pick up an Orthodox theology book, read it through, and then say, "that is exactly what we believe in!"?

I know Melkites have said again and again that they believe in everything the Orthodox Church believes in. But what about Ruthenians? Ukrainians? etc.

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#387900 - 11/06/12 06:44 PM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: ConstantineTG]
Slavophile Offline
Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 365
Loc: Cardiff, United Kingdom
I am Ukrainian Catholic and believe what the Orthodox believe.

Then again, I believe that what both the Orthodox and Catholics believe is essentially compatible, and that the notion there is some kind of perfect synthesis of Patristic tradition manifest exclusively in one side over the other is a myth.

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#387904 - 11/06/12 07:24 PM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: ConstantineTG]
Paul B Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/01
Posts: 1730
Loc: PA
Good comment Slavophile. I'm Ruthenian Greek Catholic and when you look at the Church which Christ and the Holy Spirit created, I believe that both East and West have the essential Faith in each to guide their sheep to the eternal reward.

The shortcoming is our enthusiasm for our Faith; this is what causes differences and lukewarmness.

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#387906 - 11/06/12 07:34 PM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: ConstantineTG]
lmier Offline
Member

Registered: 08/06/12
Posts: 54
Loc: Detroit, MI
A good start is the following book. "Light of the East" by George Appleyard. You can get it from http://www.stbasils.com/Store.html

It has cleared up a lot of questions I have. I also gave it to my sister who told me there is no such thing as Eastern or Western Catholic. While it is not too in depth it's a good send off.

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#387914 - 11/06/12 09:24 PM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: ConstantineTG]
StuartK Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 7394
Loc: Falls Church, VA
Quote:
Can I pick up an Orthodox theology book, read it through, and then say, "that is exactly what we believe in!"?


Pick up the 3-Volume Catechism, Light for Life: Part 1-The Mystery Believed; Part 2-The Mystery Celebrated; and Part 3-The Mystery Lived. That's what we believe. Then go find an Orthodox catechism and compare. No difference.

Now, what individual Greek Catholics believe is another thing entirely, but what we are supposed to profess is right in those books.

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#387915 - 11/06/12 09:55 PM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: Paul B]
ConstantineTG Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 308
Loc: At the Eastern Crossroads
Originally Posted By: Paul B
Good comment Slavophile. I'm Ruthenian Greek Catholic and when you look at the Church which Christ and the Holy Spirit created, I believe that both East and West have the essential Faith in each to guide their sheep to the eternal reward.

The shortcoming is our enthusiasm for our Faith; this is what causes differences and lukewarmness.


No offense here but it is this vague comment that is actually causing confusion at least for myself. I am reading a book right now on Orthodox theology and I can say that a lot in that book, I do not find in our parish. So what if I accept something or find something to be the truth as taught by the Orthodox yet it seems that in my EC parish we don't believe that?

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#387916 - 11/06/12 10:29 PM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: ConstantineTG]
StuartK Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 7394
Loc: Falls Church, VA
Doesn't your parish bookstore sell the Light for Life catechism? If not, demand that they do. Of course, there are parishes where such enlightenment would be most unwelcome, but that's no excuse not to take positive steps to improve adult religious education.

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#387920 - 11/07/12 12:05 AM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: ConstantineTG]
Paul B Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/01
Posts: 1730
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: ConstantineTG
Originally Posted By: Paul B
Good comment Slavophile. I'm Ruthenian Greek Catholic and when you look at the Church which Christ and the Holy Spirit created, I believe that both East and West have the essential Faith in each to guide their sheep to the eternal reward.

The shortcoming is our enthusiasm for our Faith; this is what causes differences and lukewarmness.


No offense here but it is this vague comment that is actually causing confusion at least for myself. I am reading a book right now on Orthodox theology and I can say that a lot in that book, I do not find in our parish. So what if I accept something or find something to be the truth as taught by the Orthodox yet it seems that in my EC parish we don't believe that?


Constantine,
Please explain, I don't understand why my comment causes confusion. Do you have an example?

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#387924 - 11/07/12 01:30 AM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: StuartK]
ConstantineTG Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 308
Loc: At the Eastern Crossroads
Originally Posted By: StuartK
Doesn't your parish bookstore sell the Light for Life catechism? If not, demand that they do. Of course, there are parishes where such enlightenment would be most unwelcome, but that's no excuse not to take positive steps to improve adult religious education.


What parish bookstore? The only thing we sell are peroggies.

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#387925 - 11/07/12 01:32 AM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: Paul B]
ConstantineTG Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 308
Loc: At the Eastern Crossroads
Originally Posted By: Paul B

Constantine,
Please explain, I don't understand why my comment causes confusion. Do you have an example?


That is the thing, it is vague. I can't get an example from it because I am not sure what is meant by the statement. And please don't take this personally, I've heard such statements from a number of people including clergy. Which is why it is confusing.

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#387926 - 11/07/12 01:34 AM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: ConstantineTG]
Slavipodvizhnik Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 2779
Loc: The Third Rome
Costya, give us an example. For instance, my parish does not do X, but the Orthodox sources say we should. Then maybe we can answer your question.

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#387927 - 11/07/12 03:14 AM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: ConstantineTG]
8IronBob Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 847
Loc: Parma, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: ConstantineTG
Originally Posted By: StuartK
Doesn't your parish bookstore sell the Light for Life catechism? If not, demand that they do. Of course, there are parishes where such enlightenment would be most unwelcome, but that's no excuse not to take positive steps to improve adult religious education.


What parish bookstore? The only thing we sell are peroggies.


Hehe, yeah, ours usually sell pierogies or stuffed cabbage rolls. Although they do sell some pretty good spiritwear from time to time.

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#387930 - 11/07/12 05:58 AM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: ConstantineTG]
Lester S Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 295
Loc: Oregon, USA
I've got a couple of things from my parish priest: Byzantine Catechism for Adults, The Sacramental Mysteries: A Byzantine (hardest read, for me, thus far) Approach by the late Rev. Kucharek. Shown to be Holy: An Introduction to Eastern Christian Moral Thought, via God With Us Publications.

I know, the RDL gets a lot of flack. But, I still get some of the essences, or roots of Eastern Christianity.

I also suggest looking at stnickbyz, on youtube. There, it has some links for video presentations, particularly on the Eastern view of the Church.

If anything, we have to look at the essentials; check if we can arrive to these points, using each approach, or lens.

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#388197 - 11/15/12 10:33 PM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: ConstantineTG]
Connie W Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 1
Loc: Colorado
Hi Constantine,
I have been a faithful protestant all of my life and have started learning about church history. It has been unsettling to say the least.I have started to read several books on the beginnings of the church. I have read, "If protestantism is true" and "Christ in His Fullness" by Bruce Sullivan. This has been a pretty emotional experience so far and I want to learn more. I agree with alot of the catholic beliefs however, a few beliefs I do not agree with. In review of the Orthodox faith, the issues that I have difficulty accepting with the latin rite of the Catholic church, I agree with the interpretation of the orthodox. I did not know there was a byzantine catholic church. Do they agree with alot of the Orthodox churches in theology? This is the first time I have ever participated in a blog. Thank you for your answer.

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#388200 - 11/16/12 10:52 AM Re: What do Byzantine Catholics really believe in? [Re: ConstantineTG]
Irish Melkite Offline
Global Moderator
Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9893
Loc: Massachusetts
Hi Connie and welcome to the forum.

You've posed a tough question. That's it's rather general - since you don't define the precise theological differences between the Latin Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches that concern you, it's probably tougher yet. Regardless, had you detailed it, you still could, and probably will, receive answers as diverse as our member rolls.

Byzantine Catholic Churches (there are 14 different ones, most defined to some degree by their historic ethnic/geographic origin) are, together with the Latin Catholic Church (and 8 or so other Catholic Churches), all part of what is probably best described as the Catholic Communion. They are all in union with one another and with the Pope. (The term Byzantine Catholic Church also is the name used specifically by one of those 14 Churches - otherwise commonly known as the Ruthenian Catholic Church.)

Among Byzantine Catholics, you'll find a broad range of opinions as to the nature of and extent to which they personally agree or disagree with the theology of the Orthodox Church. It's important to note that, for the majority of Eastern (Byzantine) and Oriental (the other non-Latin) Catholics, the Orthodox Churches represent both our historical religious origins and, most often, our cultural heritage as well. It's not uncommon to find families divided between the two and the forum members here include faithful from a substantial number of those Eastern and Oriental Churches, Catholic and Orthodox, as well as both Latin Catholics and Protestants with an intense interest in and love of Eastern spirituality, liturgy, and so forth,

Among my Byzantine Catholic brothers and sisters here, you will find those who embrace Latin theological constructs and spirituality almost as deeply as they do their own; you'll also find those who cringe at the thought, and still others whose views span the continuum. You could likewise find at least some of that same mix among my Orthodox brothers and sisters here.

By the way, in Colorado, you can find a pretty fair mix of both Eastern Catholic and Orthodox parishes to visit. In Denver, the Russian Greek-Catholic, Ruthenian Catholic, and Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Churches (all of which serve according to the Byzantine Rite) each have a parish. There are also non-Byzantine Catholic Churches with parishes or missions there - the Maronite and Ethiopian/Eritrean Catholic Churches - information is available here. The Antiochian, Greek, Romanian, Russian, and Serbian Orthodox Churches also have parishes in Denver - see information here.

If you'd like to define the differences that conflict you between the Latin and Orthodox theological viewpoints, it might help those answering you to focus on the particular points. We're glad to have you here and hope you'll enjoy yourself and remain with us for a long time to come.

Many years,

Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

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