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Originally Posted by Paul B
Getting back to the opening post about evangelizing Evangelicals, my experience is that you can't stereotype these people. I've found that they are serious Christians and have become wonderful friends and allies against the oversecularization of the American people. They have an enthusiasm that you seldom see in Catholics and Orthodox.

There is a much richer harvest if we try to teach the un-baptised, of which there are many in our own neighborhoods.


I agree, wholeheartedly. Even then, I struggle trying to open up about my faith, to such people. Part of it is induced by work regulations; other times, just inability to find the right segue.

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I kind of like the approach that this Byzantine Catholic Parish is taking. They are bringing their Divine Liturgy to a local Roman Catholic Church nearby them. This should be something to consider to bring those from the RC to the BC:

http://content.seekandfind.com/bulletins/14/0598/20130106B.pdf

Scroll down to where it says "January 27 Liturgy at St. Basil" to see what I mean. Sorry, the PDF program won't let me copy and paste from the bulletin to quote that part of the bulletin, kicked back an error on me. Although this could be a good way to evangelize and bring the experience of the Eastern Rite, while sharing that common bond of Catholicism between the Latin and Byzantine traditions.

Last edited by 8IronBob; 01/08/13 08:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by Lester S
I agree, wholeheartedly. Even then, I struggle trying to open up about my faith, to such people. Part of it is induced by work regulations; other times, just inability to find the right segue.

You have a lot of company Lester. Personally, listening to Evangelicals on a day-to-day basis has helped me to open up and speak of God's blessings. We traditional Christians have somehow learned that one shouldn't talk about God in public. Isn't that weird?

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Rev Father Paul,

I would say also the un-chrismated ... the evangelicals do have christian ideals and we should treat them as brethren.

Pope Benedict himself said (paraphrase) that the people of protestant churches were not heretics themselves even though the start of their churches may have been heretical - and he said protestants bring a real testament about Jesus.

I find that Protestants want to learn about the Ancient Faith we practice.

Furthermore - you are right - we can't lump them into a single category - they are not all young, sexy ,rock star singers at a mega evangelical concert/rally = many exist in small churches like ours - trying to keep their communities alive - with dwindling congregations (just like us) and have many of the same challenges as us. Surviving in this very narcissistic society where facebook allows us to think we are in our own "superstar" universe - all illusions about to crash and burn as hard as that Crystal Cathedral in Orange County California - being rapidly taken over by Roman Catholic Immigrants from south of the Border - (by the way I love them - I eat and work with immigrants every day! so I say that with joy about their coming).

Anyway - each of us is a reflection - hopefully of Christ.


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Glory to Jesus Christ!
As one who was Evangelical from 1994-2000, I think there's an additional missing element in this discussion of how to evangelize evangelicals.

We need to understand and communicate why we as Eastern Christians live the way that we do. Our distinctiveness cannot be masked, it should instead be highlighted. By that I mean-we have an ancient Tradition as a way to be close to Christ.

So many evangelicals are trying the latest song or devotion to keep a fire alive, but the real Fire is God Himself, and our way of prayer deeply touches on how to love God in all that we do. That we approach Him in our whole way of being Eastern Christians may not be apparent if we consider our traditions "just for us", however.

Instead, we should reach out to them to let them know about the deep history of our faith. I think that many Orthodox parishes do this much better than those of us who are Eastern Catholics, but pray that we can learn from this.

In XC,
JAD

Last edited by j.a.deane; 01/09/13 03:04 PM.
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Another element to take into consideration would be vocations among married Roman Catholic men (particularly former Protestant ministers who have converted to Roman Catholicism). "I'd love to become a Catholic priest; I think I could be a good one...but I can't because I'm married."

Bzzzzzzzzzt. Guess again. Go East, young man.

Another approach to evangelizing Evangelicals (and a way to evangelize ourselves, for that matter) would be to more enthusiastically and publicly embrace the Sacred Scriptures with parish Bible study programs or independent home gatherings for prayer and Scripture study. Bible Christians shouldn't have to say goodbye to the Bible as a centerpiece of their lives once they come over our way.

I gather that much of what is appealing about Evangelical Protestantism is that it speaks of a living Christian practice and witness that goes beyond Sunday and holy day worship services and private devotions. There seems to be a refreshing amount of attention paid by such Christians to fellowship, ministry, stewardship, Bible study, and evangelization that we don't really see so much in the Catholic Church.

There are Catholic parishes that are exceptional in this regard, but generally, the Catholic Church seems to lag behind. Roman Catholics go to Mass and bingo. Eastern Catholics go to Liturgy and host bizarres. In my own area, the Eastern Orthodox do, too, for the most part. The Copts in my area, on the other hand, seem to embrace parish life more fully...very much like Evangelicals, actually.

I have met a number of Protestant converts to Catholicism and I often hear that what they miss the most about their Protestant churches was the connectedness they experienced. The churches they came from felt like family, to them. In the Catholic Church, by contrast, they feel alone, isolated, individual...they feel reduced to an envelope in the collection basket.

They're glad to have the Eucharist, now, and the Sacraments and the satisfaction that they belong to the ancient and authentic Church, but they wonder why belonging to that ancient Church should present them with such a deficiency in terms of fellowship, ministry, outreach, Scripture study (and, frankly, good preaching from the pulpit by the clergy).

And I see their point. I've never been Protestant a day in my life, yet I perceive the same deficiency, both East and West, but especially East. Roman Catholic churches in this area at least have some programs and at the very least are open 7 days a week. The Eastern Catholic Churches around here, on the other hand, are mostly open for a one Sunday liturgy a week and that's it. No parish offices. No parish outreach. No nothing. Just liturgy at 10:00 am on Sunday. The churches are dark and empty the rest of the week.

In the meantime, the Evangelicals and the Baptists are out there like gangbusters. They seem to go to church or to Bible study programs or to be out evangelizing endlessly. They even host agape meals at each others homes! Agapes! That's a shame on us. We should be doing that! We used to. What happened?

But even beyond the strictly apostolic activities, many of these Evangelical Christians engage in fellowship for fellowship's sake. They'll have pizza nights and bowling nights and charter rides on a scenic railroad or organize "Christian Day" at the local amusement park...little social things like that that keep them connected. Protestants really miss all of that when they convert to Catholicism. But they shouldn't have to.

The Catholic Church, East and West, should offer the fullest, richest, and most lively Christian experience. Tie all of that "extra" stuff ("extra" to us but essential to them) that they enjoy to what we already have...our liturgy, our sacred traditions, our sacred music, our sacred ceremonies, our sacred art, our sacred architecture, our sacred devotions, our sacred literature, the Sacraments, and the Eucharist above all...and my goodness, I'm depressing myself just thinking about everything that we could be and should be but aren't!

We Catholics and Orthodox shouldn't be shamed by the Evangelicals and other Protestants when it comes to living the Christian life dynamically. We ought to be the ones doing all the shaming. Outsiders should be able to look at us and say, "Now, that's the Church of Jesus Christ".

Maybe we should be approaching our clergy and asking them to step it up a little. I realize that it doesn't all fall on their shoulders; I realize that we, as the Christian community, need to take initiative and not rely upon our clergy to do everything. But we should at least be able to express our enthusiasm to them and then expect to receive from them their generous and enthusiastic support. I can't imagine that wouldn't be the case.


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Yeah, you're right about that, RI. Priests like Fr. Tom Loya can't do it all when it comes to evangelization, it needs to come from having strategies similar to what St. Joseph's in Brecksville is doing, and holding a Divine Liturgy in a RC parish like St. Basil's as a once-off. It's not that uncommon for a BC Church to hold a Divine Liturgy outside of their own natural habitat, and it does serve as a tool to bring those from other Catholic Churches to experience another tradition, and see if they will enjoy it, and feel that they want more. Let's hope there will be other BCCs and UGCCs that follow suit with an approach like this.

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Food festivals are the best advertising. Get them in, fill them up, take them on a Church tour, give them a choral concert (make sure your choir is up to snuff first)--you'll be fishers of men.

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Well, I know the UGCC Cathedral of St. Josaphat holds Bingo every Sunday night, although I'm not sure if this would be an activity that'll get more visitors, and potential parishioners, and converts to the Ukrainian Catholic Church.

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Originally Posted by Paul B
There is a much richer harvest if we try to teach the un-baptised, of which there are many in our own neighborhoods.

An ounce of poison will kill the same person as a gallon of poison.

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Originally Posted by j.a.deane
we should reach out to them to let them know about the deep history of our faith.

It is not our faith it is the Christian faith. You can't call some of these people Christian. Some "evangelicals" don't believe in the trinity. Some dance around with poison snakes. Their views are far and wide and hard to nail down.

Remember what we sing every Sunday?
"We have found the true faith..."

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Yes, Ray S., and during the Great Entrance, it's sung by the deacons, and during the end of the priest's prayer, "May the Lord, God remember in His kingdom, all you Christians of the true faith, now and ever and forever."

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Quote
Another approach to evangelizing Evangelicals (and a way to evangelize ourselves, for that matter) would be to more enthusiastically and publicly embrace the Sacred Scriptures with parish Bible study programs or independent home gatherings for prayer and Scripture study. Bible Christians shouldn't have to say goodbye to the Bible as a centerpiece of their lives once they come over our way.

First, Eastern Catholics are "Bible Christians." Some Evangelicals might hold a Sola Scriptura view point but that doesn't make them "Bible Christians" I believe in the middle ages the proper term would be heretic.

It is getting quite old reading the posts from members of this forum who claim to be either Eastern Catholic or Orthodox and don't hold the view point that "we are the true faith..." Either you believe it or you don't! If you believe it then you should never be ashamed of it.

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I gather that much of what is appealing about Evangelical Protestantism is that it speaks of a living Christian practice and witness that goes beyond Sunday and holy day worship services and private devotions. There seems to be a refreshing amount of attention paid by such Christians to fellowship, ministry, stewardship, Bible study, and evangelization that we don't really see so much in the Catholic Church.

If you don't have this in your Church then perhaps you can start it. In my Church we have fellowship, community involvement, full liturgical celebrations. There is little lacking in my Church. Although not perfect, I challenge anyone to find a better Church. Yes, I have been too many Evangelical Mega-Churches and neither of them can compare to my small BCC.

I think we need to start by showing pride in our Churches. No where else on this planet can find the fullness of the faith then in your own Church!!!

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Maybe we should be approaching our clergy and asking them to step it up a little.

Shouldn't we start by stepping it up ourselves?


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Bible Christians shouldn't have to say goodbye to the Bible as a centerpiece of their lives
BTW, the Byzantine Catholic Cultural Center recently held an online Bible study on Tuesday night on the Gospel of St. John. I watched it, followed it, studied it, and I can't say that I heard the Gospel explained better than any "Evangelical Preacher" I have heard before. The priest doing the Bible study is better than any Joel Osteen or Billy Graham, etc...

The Church is doing stuff the problem is the people aren't participating.

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Well, I know the UGCC Cathedral of St. Josaphat holds Bingo every Sunday night, although I'm not sure if this would be an activity that'll get more visitors, and potential parishioners, and converts to the Ukrainian Catholic Church.

Bingo is the Eighth Sacrament, but I don't think it is something that brings people into the Church. A festival, on the other hand, demonstrates the virtue of charity, exposes people to aspects of a different culture, and reveals the mystery of the Church--if you approach it as something more than just a money-making opportunity.

For better or worse, I would not be here if Epiphany had not held its Slavic Festival in September of 1995. I know a lot of other people who came for the food, stayed for Mystery.

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Originally Posted by Ray S
First, Eastern Catholics are "Bible Christians." Some Evangelicals might hold a Sola Scriptura view point but that doesn't make them "Bible Christians" I believe in the middle ages the proper term would be heretic.

My apologies. I imagined the term to be common contemporary terminology referring to "Sola Scriptura" Christians and therefore presumed that readers would generally know what I meant by "Bible Christians" and wouldn't imagine that I was suggesting that Catholic and Orthodox Christians are somehow divorced from Sacred Scripture.

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If you don't have this in your Church...


I don't.

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...then perhaps you can start it.

That's precisely what I suggested, yes: that we could start doing such things if we aren't doing them already. That was my suggestion.

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In my Church we have fellowship, community involvement, full liturgical celebrations. There is little lacking in my Church. Although not perfect, I challenge anyone to find a better Church. Yes, I have been too many Evangelical Mega-Churches and neither of them can compare to my small BCC.

Then my suggestions don't apply to your parish. You're way ahead of me. Apparently those suggestions were pretty good, though...I mean...you seem to be enjoying it all where you are.

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Maybe we should be approaching our clergy and asking them to step it up a little.

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Shouldn't we start by stepping it up ourselves?

Yes, just as I indicated when I said, "I realize that it doesn't all fall on their shoulders; I realize that we, as the Christian community, need to take initiative and not rely upon our clergy to do everything. But we should at least be able to express our enthusiasm to them and then expect to receive from them their generous and enthusiastic support." We ought to partner with our clergy in creating more dynamic environments within our parish communities. The clergy are the natural (and official) leaders of the communities, however. We have the right to expect leadership from them, therefore, and to anticipate their support. That's all I suggested.

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The Church is doing stuff the problem is the people aren't participating.

The Church is the People. It's not merely a building where a liturgy happens once a week. The People of God needs to be fed every day, and in different ways. Often that isn't so, and I perceive that converts coming from Evangelical traditions sense that loss rather acutely when they come our way. While your parish might be practically perfect in every way, it may be that your parish is exceptional. I simply suggested ways in which all of our parishes could be as exceptional as yours.

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