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New Coptic Catholic Patriarch #389944 01/16/13 02:34 PM
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The Italian website Vatican Insider reports that Coptic Catholic Patriarch Antonios Naguib, 77, resigned yesterday for health reasons. The website also reports that the Synod of Bishops of the Coptic Catholic Church has elected a new patriarch, Ibrahim Isaac Sidrak, 57, until now the Bishop of Minya (Hermopolis Magna). The news is also reported by the French service of the Vatican Radio.

Axios! Axios! Axios!

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: Latin Catholic] #389967 01/16/13 10:53 PM
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Wow, rather young Patriarch. Although, I'm not sure if Patriarch Sviatoslav is really that old, either. Just nice to know that these Patriarchs have a good life ahead of them. May he live, and that God grant those many, happy, blessed years of his tenure. Axios!

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: Latin Catholic] #389991 01/18/13 12:50 PM
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The news of the resignation of His Beatitude Patriarch Antonios Naguib and the election of Amba Ibrahim Isaac Sidrak as the new Patriarch of the Coptic Catholic Church of Alexandria has been confirmed today in both Egypt and the Vatican.

The election took place on January 15, and Pope Benedict XVI has today granted "ecclesiastical communion," according to the Press Office of the Holy See.

Axios! Axios! Axios!

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: Latin Catholic] #390014 01/19/13 10:29 AM
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Axios! Axios! Axios!

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: Latin Catholic] #390026 01/19/13 03:52 PM
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Here are the letters of communion exchanged between Pope Benedict XVI and Patriarch Ibrahim Isaac Sidrak.

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: Latin Catholic] #390028 01/19/13 11:11 PM
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Axios!

Fascinating. Two new Coptic patriarchs/popes in the span of three months. Has that ever happened previously to any of the other Eastern Catholic and Eastern/Oriental Orthodox counterparts?

I personally would like His Beatitude to move away from the byzantinization that has occurred in the wearing of the klobuk by the Coptic Catholic bishops and begin wearing the Coptic emma.

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: Latin Catholic] #390035 01/20/13 07:19 AM
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Axios! Axios! Axios!


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: griego catolico] #390039 01/20/13 02:29 PM
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I don't think this was strictly a byzantinization - at least not a voluntary one - in the original Islamic/Sharia millet system, each "religio-ethnic" group was to have it's own leader and one distinctive dress to identify them from the others.

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: Michael_Thoma] #390041 01/20/13 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
I don't think this was strictly a byzantinization - at least not a voluntary one - in the original Islamic/Sharia millet system, each "religio-ethnic" group was to have it's own leader and one distinctive dress to identify them from the others.


Yes, it's true that there were "taghiyir" requirements, but I don't think the Ottomans actually cared about the specifics. Notice that the "kossita" worn by the ACoE isn't all that much different from the "shash" worn by the Chaldean Catholicos-Patriarch. So, too the Maronite "tobiyye" doesn't differ all that much from it's SOC counterpart (also used by the Syro-Malankara, and I've forgotten what it's called ... oops blush ).

The only real oddities are among the Syriacs, Copts, and Armenians in union with Rome, where the Patriarchs are saddled with a Byzantine-style kamilavkion and veil (again, I've forgotten what it's called in Greek and don't have the ambition to do a search). All of them were under the Ottomans, so the idea of differentiation for that reason falls a little short, since the kamilavkion is used by the Byzantines (both Orthodox and otherwise) and of course the Ottomans didn't complain.

It seems far more likely to me that some brain-dead functionaries in Rome decided to lump the Orientals with the "Greeks" which is what they were most familiar with, and thus we have what we have.

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: malphono] #390053 01/21/13 05:13 PM
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I can't speak for the others, but in the case of the Syriac Catholics, the Syriac Orthodox who did not reunite in the 1600-1700s with Rome instigated the Turkish authorities to force the Syriac Catholic bishops to dress differently.

Check out this book, perhaps in a library, it's pretty expensive:
Social Relations in Ottoman Diyarbekir, 1870-1915

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: Michael_Thoma] #390055 01/21/13 06:13 PM
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Oh, I know wink , and while that would explain the difference. e.g, in the eskeemo between the SOC and the SCC, it doesn't explain the kamilavkion.

Considering the Ottoman mindset, it wouldn't make sense for them to require the SCC to adopt Byzantine headwear. Nor would it explain how the Melkites escaped scott-free, with no differentiation from the Orthodox. Not that the relations were all that great, but no Christian group had better relations with the Ottomans than did the Byzantine Orthodox.

Last edited by malphono; 01/21/13 06:22 PM.
Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: Latin Catholic] #390059 01/21/13 08:27 PM
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Here is an interesting interview with the new patriarch, so far only in Italian.

Among Patriarch Ibrahim's worries for the future is negative influence on traditional Egyptian Islam from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf; even so he seems cautiously optimistic. He mentions as an example that some Islamic preachers have called it a "sin" for Muslims to wish Christians a happy Christmas; yet this Christmas the number of Muslim wellwishers was greater than usual! He sees this as a sign that many Egyptian Muslims are rejecting the fundamentalist preachers.

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: Latin Catholic] #390596 02/05/13 07:50 PM
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It is my hope that His Beatitude Ibrahim will begin recovering the liturgical traditions of the Coptic Catholic Church.

For example, here is a video of the 2011 Christmas liturgy celebrated by Patriarch-emeritus Antonios I Naguib at Our Lady of Egypt Coptic Catholic Cathedral in Cairo.
Compare that with this video of the 2013 Christmas liturgy celebrated by His Holiness, Pope Tawadros II, at Saint Mark Coptic Orthodox cathedral in Cairo.

One notices in the Catholic liturgy:
1) His Beatitude and co-celebrant bishop wearing klobuks even when celebrating liturgy. (His predecessor, Patriarch Stephanos II Ghattas, did wear the mitre.)
2) There appear to be two priests assisting, but they are not wearing the mitre-like head covering that a Coptic priest wears when celebrating liturgy.
3)lack of a Coptic iconostasis.
4)The liturgy is celebrated on Dec. 25, whereas the Coptic Orthodox celebrate Christmas on Jan. 7.
5) Although one could not tell from the video, it has been my experience that Coptic Catholic liturgies are abbreviated versions of the Coptic Orthodox liturgies.

By the way, has His Beatitude already been enthroned?

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: Latin Catholic] #392080 03/12/13 10:27 AM
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As I post this, the enthronement of the new Coptic Catholic patriarch is being broadcast live: http://www.copticvideos.com/p/ctv-coptic-channel-live.html

Re: New Coptic Catholic Patriarch [Re: griego catolico] #392081 03/12/13 10:47 AM
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As soon as I connected Pope Towadros was being introduced and received with an enormous ovation.
What a touching ecumenical moment!
One prays that these two Coptic leaders might bring their flocks closer together!
Filipe

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