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#390127 - 01/24/13 09:25 PM "Outside of Russia"
Roman Interloper Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 324
Loc: New York
In the first place, I beg everyone to pardon my ignorance. All of these things are relatively new to me and I'm only just beginning to learn.

In my area, there are three Russian Orthodox Churches. Two of them are under the same bishop but the third is under a different bishop and is not merely called a "Russian Orthodox Church" but a "Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia".

This "Outside of Russia" parish is different from the other two in that the church has no pews and nobody seems to be actually Russian, including the priest, who is 100% American with an Anglo-Saxon name.

Is this some sort of breakaway group from the original Russian Orthodox Church?

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#390128 - 01/24/13 10:07 PM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Roman Interloper]
Mariya DS Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 132
Loc: Texas
Here is the information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia

In the United States, the number of ROCOR churches is significantly higher than Patriarchal churches. I belong to a Patriarchal church and avoid ROCOR.

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#390130 - 01/24/13 10:35 PM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Mariya DS]
Alice Offline
Moderator
Member

Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 10830
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mariya Diawara
Here is the information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia

In the United States, the number of ROCOR churches is significantly higher than Patriarchal churches. I belong to a Patriarchal church and avoid ROCOR.


Why?

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#390133 - 01/25/13 01:05 AM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Roman Interloper]
chadrook Offline
Member

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 368
Loc: Kansas
Good question, why avoid ROCOR?

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#390136 - 01/25/13 02:03 AM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Roman Interloper]
8IronBob Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 847
Loc: Parma, Ohio, USA
Well, then there's the OCA, too, which seems to be a breakaway from the Russian Orthodox, too, iirc.

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#390137 - 01/25/13 03:30 AM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Alice]
Mariya DS Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 132
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Alice
Why?

Because it's not my church, that's all. I know the two are reunited now, but it's a different organization, they have other hierarchs, why should I go there? I was baptized in MP and belong to MP.


Edited by Mariya Diawara (01/25/13 03:36 AM)

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#390141 - 01/25/13 07:11 AM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Mariya DS]
Fr David Straut Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 790
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Mariya Diawara
Originally Posted By: Alice
Why?

Because it's not my church, that's all. I know the two are reunited now, but it's a different organization, they have other hierarchs, why should I go there? I was baptized in MP and belong to MP.


frown And I thought we were the fanatics. wink But God bless you, Mariya. smile

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#390147 - 01/25/13 12:56 PM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Fr David Straut]
Mariya DS Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 132
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Fr David Straut
frown And I thought we were the fanatics. wink But God bless you, Mariya. smile

Who are "we" and what do you mean by fanatics? God bless you too.

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#390151 - 01/25/13 03:11 PM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Mariya DS]
chadrook Offline
Member

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 368
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Mariya Diawara
Originally Posted By: Alice
Why?

Because it's not my church, that's all. I know the two are reunited now, but it's a different organization, they have other hierarchs, why should I go there? I was baptized in MP and belong to MP.


Look, I am being up front with you. I only ask because I am interested in the "different organization," aspect. I am not looking to start a fight. I have seen this sort of division amongst the "unified Russian Church," and find it curious. I can remember rabid attacks from Bp. Jerome and Fr. John Whiteford on the synod list as to the complete compatibility and unification under the same hierarchy.

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#390152 - 01/25/13 03:22 PM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: chadrook]
Mariya DS Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 132
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: chadrook
Look, I am being up front with you. I only ask because I am interested in the "different organization," aspect. I am not looking to start a fight. I have seen this sort of division amongst the "unified Russian Church," and find it curious. I can remember rabid attacks from Bp. Jerome and Fr. John Whiteford on the synod list as to the complete compatibility and unification under the same hierarchy.


What fight, Chadrook? Is anyone fighting?

I never heard of any attacks and I do not know who Jerome and John Whiteford are. The only attacks I ever saw were bizarre comments about MP on some site called Remnant ROCOR, I asked my priest Fr. Stephen Kaznica about it and he told me to pay it no mind.

ROCOR is not a church to which I belong so I don't go there. There are Baptists and Southern Baptists, two separate entities, there is the Catholic Church and the Polish National Catholic church, two separate entities. there is the Anglican Church under the Archbishop of Canterbury and its gazillion splitoffs. I do not understand what the issue is in this thread.


Edited by Mariya Diawara (01/25/13 03:30 PM)

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#390153 - 01/25/13 03:37 PM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Mariya DS]
Fr David Straut Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 790
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Mariya Diawara
Originally Posted By: Fr David Straut
frown And I thought we were the fanatics. wink But God bless you, Mariya. smile

Who are "we" and what do you mean by fanatics? God bless you too.


I would have thought the context was obvious. "We" are the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, of which I am a priest, and which you have decided to publicly announce that you "avoid."

I could ask you why you decided to use such a negative verb. People try to avoid contagious, dangerous, or unpleasant situations. I would never say that I try to avoid any Orthodox Christian Church or Jurisdiction though, Heaven knows, that I am not an uncritical person. For that matter, our (yours and my) presence here on this Forum proves that neither of us even avoids the Non-Orthodox. But I will not ask you, Mariya, because I do not really want to expose myself to poison. Suffice it to say that our (yours and my) Patriarch of blessed memory, Alexey II, did not believe the way you do, nor does our (yours and my) Patriarch, Kyrill, feel the way you do, nor do your current Hierarchs in North America (Archbishop Justinian in the United States) behave the way you do.

The reference to 'fanatics' is a historical reference to the way that the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia was often characterized (not without reason) by many Orthodox prior to the Act of Canonical Communion of Ascension Day 2007 which reunited the two sundered parts of the one Russian Orthodox Church.

By the way, you were baptised into Christ and His Body: the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church - the Orthodox Church - not into a Jurisdiction of the Church. But there I go, being a priest again.

May the Lord bless you, Mariya.

Archpriest David Straut
St Elizabeth the New Martyr Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
Rocky Hill, New Jersey, United States
www.saint-elizabeths.org

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#390154 - 01/25/13 03:45 PM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Roman Interloper]
Alice Offline
Moderator
Member

Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 10830
Loc: USA
I agree with Father David, that the word 'avoid' was extremely negative and offensive to all Orthodox here, including me.

Hopefully, it was just a poor choice of word!

Alice,
Moderator

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#390155 - 01/25/13 03:51 PM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Fr David Straut]
Mariya DS Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 132
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Fr David Straut
I would have thought the context was obvious. "We" are the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, of which I am a priest

All of this was supposed to be obvious without an introduction? I must not be very bright...

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#390160 - 01/25/13 04:02 PM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Alice]
Mariya DS Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 132
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Alice
I agree with Father David, that the word 'avoid' was extremely negative and offensive to all Orthodox here, including me.

Hopefully, it was just a poor choice of word!

Alice,
Moderator

Have some chocolate, you'll feel better.

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#390161 - 01/25/13 04:16 PM Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Mariya DS]
Fr David Straut Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 790
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Mariya Diawara

Have some chocolate, you'll feel better.


Have some Christian Charity, Mariya. You'll feel better.

Fr David

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