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"Outside of Russia" #390127
01/24/13 04:25 PM
01/24/13 04:25 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 324
New York
Roman Interloper Offline OP
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Roman Interloper  Offline OP
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In the first place, I beg everyone to pardon my ignorance. All of these things are relatively new to me and I'm only just beginning to learn.

In my area, there are three Russian Orthodox Churches. Two of them are under the same bishop but the third is under a different bishop and is not merely called a "Russian Orthodox Church" but a "Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia".

This "Outside of Russia" parish is different from the other two in that the church has no pews and nobody seems to be actually Russian, including the priest, who is 100% American with an Anglo-Saxon name.

Is this some sort of breakaway group from the original Russian Orthodox Church?

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Roman Interloper] #390128
01/24/13 05:07 PM
01/24/13 05:07 PM
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Mariya DS Offline
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Here is the information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia

In the United States, the number of ROCOR churches is significantly higher than Patriarchal churches. I belong to a Patriarchal church and avoid ROCOR.

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Mariya DS] #390130
01/24/13 05:35 PM
01/24/13 05:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,885
USA
Alice Offline
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Originally Posted by Mariya Diawara
Here is the information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia

In the United States, the number of ROCOR churches is significantly higher than Patriarchal churches. I belong to a Patriarchal church and avoid ROCOR.


Why?

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Roman Interloper] #390133
01/24/13 08:05 PM
01/24/13 08:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 357
Kansas
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chadrook Offline
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Good question, why avoid ROCOR?

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Roman Interloper] #390136
01/24/13 09:03 PM
01/24/13 09:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 844
Parma, Ohio, USA
8IronBob Offline
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Well, then there's the OCA, too, which seems to be a breakaway from the Russian Orthodox, too, iirc.

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Alice] #390137
01/24/13 10:30 PM
01/24/13 10:30 PM
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Texas
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Mariya DS Offline
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Originally Posted by Alice
Why?

Because it's not my church, that's all. I know the two are reunited now, but it's a different organization, they have other hierarchs, why should I go there? I was baptized in MP and belong to MP.

Last edited by Mariya Diawara; 01/24/13 10:36 PM.
Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Mariya DS] #390141
01/25/13 02:11 AM
01/25/13 02:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
New Jersey
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Fr David Straut Offline
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Originally Posted by Mariya Diawara
Originally Posted by Alice
Why?

Because it's not my church, that's all. I know the two are reunited now, but it's a different organization, they have other hierarchs, why should I go there? I was baptized in MP and belong to MP.


frown And I thought we were the fanatics. wink But God bless you, Mariya. smile

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Fr David Straut] #390147
01/25/13 07:56 AM
01/25/13 07:56 AM
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Mariya DS Offline
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Originally Posted by Fr David Straut
frown And I thought we were the fanatics. wink But God bless you, Mariya. smile

Who are "we" and what do you mean by fanatics? God bless you too.

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Mariya DS] #390151
01/25/13 10:11 AM
01/25/13 10:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 357
Kansas
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chadrook Offline
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Originally Posted by Mariya Diawara
Originally Posted by Alice
Why?

Because it's not my church, that's all. I know the two are reunited now, but it's a different organization, they have other hierarchs, why should I go there? I was baptized in MP and belong to MP.


Look, I am being up front with you. I only ask because I am interested in the "different organization," aspect. I am not looking to start a fight. I have seen this sort of division amongst the "unified Russian Church," and find it curious. I can remember rabid attacks from Bp. Jerome and Fr. John Whiteford on the synod list as to the complete compatibility and unification under the same hierarchy.

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: chadrook] #390152
01/25/13 10:22 AM
01/25/13 10:22 AM
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Mariya DS Offline
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Originally Posted by chadrook
Look, I am being up front with you. I only ask because I am interested in the "different organization," aspect. I am not looking to start a fight. I have seen this sort of division amongst the "unified Russian Church," and find it curious. I can remember rabid attacks from Bp. Jerome and Fr. John Whiteford on the synod list as to the complete compatibility and unification under the same hierarchy.


What fight, Chadrook? Is anyone fighting?

I never heard of any attacks and I do not know who Jerome and John Whiteford are. The only attacks I ever saw were bizarre comments about MP on some site called Remnant ROCOR, I asked my priest Fr. Stephen Kaznica about it and he told me to pay it no mind.

ROCOR is not a church to which I belong so I don't go there. There are Baptists and Southern Baptists, two separate entities, there is the Catholic Church and the Polish National Catholic church, two separate entities. there is the Anglican Church under the Archbishop of Canterbury and its gazillion splitoffs. I do not understand what the issue is in this thread.

Last edited by Mariya Diawara; 01/25/13 10:30 AM.
Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Mariya DS] #390153
01/25/13 10:37 AM
01/25/13 10:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
New Jersey
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Fr David Straut Offline
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New Jersey
Originally Posted by Mariya Diawara
Originally Posted by Fr David Straut
frown And I thought we were the fanatics. wink But God bless you, Mariya. smile

Who are "we" and what do you mean by fanatics? God bless you too.


I would have thought the context was obvious. "We" are the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, of which I am a priest, and which you have decided to publicly announce that you "avoid."

I could ask you why you decided to use such a negative verb. People try to avoid contagious, dangerous, or unpleasant situations. I would never say that I try to avoid any Orthodox Christian Church or Jurisdiction though, Heaven knows, that I am not an uncritical person. For that matter, our (yours and my) presence here on this Forum proves that neither of us even avoids the Non-Orthodox. But I will not ask you, Mariya, because I do not really want to expose myself to poison. Suffice it to say that our (yours and my) Patriarch of blessed memory, Alexey II, did not believe the way you do, nor does our (yours and my) Patriarch, Kyrill, feel the way you do, nor do your current Hierarchs in North America (Archbishop Justinian in the United States) behave the way you do.

The reference to 'fanatics' is a historical reference to the way that the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia was often characterized (not without reason) by many Orthodox prior to the Act of Canonical Communion of Ascension Day 2007 which reunited the two sundered parts of the one Russian Orthodox Church.

By the way, you were baptised into Christ and His Body: the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church - the Orthodox Church - not into a Jurisdiction of the Church. But there I go, being a priest again.

May the Lord bless you, Mariya.

Archpriest David Straut
St Elizabeth the New Martyr Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
Rocky Hill, New Jersey, United States
www.saint-elizabeths.org

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Roman Interloper] #390154
01/25/13 10:45 AM
01/25/13 10:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,885
USA
Alice Offline
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Alice  Offline
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I agree with Father David, that the word 'avoid' was extremely negative and offensive to all Orthodox here, including me.

Hopefully, it was just a poor choice of word!

Alice,
Moderator

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Fr David Straut] #390155
01/25/13 10:51 AM
01/25/13 10:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 126
Texas
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Mariya DS Offline
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Texas
Originally Posted by Fr David Straut
I would have thought the context was obvious. "We" are the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, of which I am a priest

All of this was supposed to be obvious without an introduction? I must not be very bright...

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Alice] #390160
01/25/13 11:02 AM
01/25/13 11:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 126
Texas
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Mariya DS Offline
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Originally Posted by Alice
I agree with Father David, that the word 'avoid' was extremely negative and offensive to all Orthodox here, including me.

Hopefully, it was just a poor choice of word!

Alice,
Moderator

Have some chocolate, you'll feel better.

Re: "Outside of Russia" [Re: Mariya DS] #390161
01/25/13 11:16 AM
01/25/13 11:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
New Jersey
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Fr David Straut Offline
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Fr David Straut  Offline
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Posts: 787
New Jersey
Originally Posted by Mariya Diawara

Have some chocolate, you'll feel better.


Have some Christian Charity, Mariya. You'll feel better.

Fr David

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