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#390628 - 02/06/13 02:43 PM Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’
Slavipodvizhnik Offline
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Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 2779
Loc: The Third Rome
http://www.pravmir.com/russia-to-outlaw-homosexual-propaganda/

Last month, the Russian parliament approved by a vote of 388-1-1 a draft law outlawing the dissemination of “homosexual propaganda” to minors, prompting the Obama administration to pull out of “civil society” dialogue.

The legislation, backed by the combined efforts of the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church, also would ban public events promoting homosexual rights, charge fines of up to $16,000 for any public displays of “homosexual propaganda,” and block web content inappropriate for younger audiences. After two more readings, it goes to Russian President Vladimir Putin for his signature.

The bill, designed to protect minors from the influence of “sodomy, lesbianism, bisexuality and transgenderism,” is part of a growing national trend towards promoting traditional Russian values over Western liberalism.

“We either become a tolerant Western state where everything is allowed—and lose our Christianity and moral foundations—or we will be a Christian people who live in our God-protected land in purity and godliness,” said Rev. Sergiy Rybko, a priest in the Orthodox Church.

The civil society talks were among several initiated by President Barack Obama and then-Russian President Dmitry Medevdev to reset strained U.S.-Russian relations. But the day the Duma, Russia’s lower house of parliament, passed the new bill, State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said, “The working group was not working.”

The new restrictions “were increasingly calling into question whether maintaining this government-to-government mechanism was either useful or appropriate,” she said, adding, “Nobody should be discriminated against for who they love.”

That response is unlikely to bother the Russians, according to David Aikman, a journalist and foreign policy consultant.

“The Russians will say, ‘Who are you to tell us what to do?’”Aikman said. “The U.S. has no moral high ground to stand on, according to the Russians, because the Kremlin views the West as decadent, immoral, and corrupt.”

Aikman added that Russian identity is tied up with Orthodox Christianity, and that Russians are slow to change attitudes. In some ways, Russian culture is where American culture was in the 1960’s. “Homosexuality is not a valid lifestyle, and it is even viewed as a threat,” Aikman said.

According to opinion polls taken last year by the Levada Center, almost two thirds of Russians find homosexuality “morally unacceptable and worth condemning.” And about half opposed gay rallies and same-sex marriage, while almost a third thought homosexuality was the result of “a sickness or a psychological trauma.”

Many Westerners find such attitudes shocking, but in some ways “Russia is one of the most pro-family countries out there,” said Stephen Baskerville, professor of international relations at Patrick Henry College. “St. Petersburg has been particularly active on family issues and parental rights. … There is nothing wrong with trying to uphold traditional values and protecting children.”

Despite their claims of upholding pro-family values, Russian politicians faced criticism from their own constituents, as well as the international community, for recent measures restricting adoption options for thousands of children languishing in orphanages. In late December, parliament passed, and Putin signed into law, a ban on Americans adopting Russian children. The ban was a retaliation for sanctions adopted by U.S. lawmakers against prominent Russians accused of human rights violations. Although the Russian Orthodox church supported the ban, Russian citizens held vigils in protest, accusing their leaders of using children as political pawns.

Aikman also warned some traditionalistic Russians may take the ban on “homosexual propaganda” too far. The day the bill passed, Russian police detained 20 people after Orthodox activists attacked homosexual rights campaigners holding a protest near the country’s parliament.

“Any policy that is extreme and violent is bad,” Aikman said. “No one should approve of witch hunts against gays.”

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#390632 - 02/06/13 05:52 PM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
Alice Offline
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Member

Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 10869
Loc: USA
Quote:
Aikman also warned some traditionalistic Russians may take the ban on “homosexual propaganda” too far. The day the bill passed, Russian police detained 20 people after Orthodox activists attacked homosexual rights campaigners holding a protest near the country’s parliament.

“Any policy that is extreme and violent is bad,” Aikman said. “No one should approve of witch hunts against gays.”


True, however, I believe that the West, especially the U.S. has taken the concept of fairness and non-discrimination of people and their morality choices to an extreme as well--the other extreme.

I suspect that witch hunts will soon start in the United States against those who do not agree, whether silently (as in individuals) or not (such as churches).

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#390661 - 02/07/13 02:22 AM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: Alice]
Apotheoun Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 2861
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Alice
I suspect that witch hunts will soon start in the United States against those who do not agree, whether silently (as in individuals) or not (such as churches).

I agree. Persecution by the United States government of Christians who support traditional morality is coming soon.

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#390662 - 02/07/13 02:28 AM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
Apotheoun Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 2861
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Slavipodvizhnik
That response is unlikely to bother the Russians, according to David Aikman, a journalist and foreign policy consultant.

“The Russians will say, ‘Who are you to tell us what to do?’”Aikman said. “The U.S. has no moral high ground to stand on, according to the Russians, because the Kremlin views the West as decadent, immoral, and corrupt.”

It seems that the "Russian" assessment of the overall immoral condition of American society is accurate.

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#390664 - 02/07/13 02:58 AM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
StuartK Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 7394
Loc: Falls Church, VA
But it is a more accurate assessment of Russian society.

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#390665 - 02/07/13 03:30 AM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: Apotheoun]
8IronBob Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 847
Loc: Parma, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: Apotheoun
Originally Posted By: Alice
I suspect that witch hunts will soon start in the United States against those who do not agree, whether silently (as in individuals) or not (such as churches).

I agree. Persecution by the United States government of Christians who support traditional morality is coming soon.


And we're going to be in the fight of our lives to defend and protect the moral stance in which we believe in... Let's hope we can pull out and win over the persecution. Hold on tight, we're gonna be in for a bumpy ride in the next four years or so.

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#390666 - 02/07/13 05:15 AM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: StuartK]
Apotheoun Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 2861
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: StuartK
But it is a more accurate assessment of Russian society.

I'm sure Russian society has many problems, how could it not after 70 years of atheism, but it is not endorsing the homosexual agenda like the United States.

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#390671 - 02/07/13 01:40 PM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
StuartK Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 7394
Loc: Falls Church, VA
No, but on the other hand, prostitution is rampant and abortion is ubiquitous. Russia is the pornography capital of the world; one of the most corrupt cultures on the face of the earth, where everyone and everything is for sale; shows little care or sympathy for widows, orphans and the handicapped; is rife with racism, hypernationalism and anti-semitism; is governed by an autocratic thug who uses violence and intimidation to get his way, while simultaneously enriching himself and his cronies. . . need I go on?

What know they of Russia, who do not Russia know?

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#390672 - 02/07/13 02:03 PM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
Alice Offline
Moderator
Member

Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 10869
Loc: USA
The America of compassion, and fear and love of God is fast becoming a blurb in history. I still think that we have much good and compassion, and much more so than any other nation on earth, but that is slowly disappearing.

Love and fairness have become greatly confused and convoluted and those charities and groups that show love the most and carry out Christ's work the most here and abroad are becoming hated, feared, mocked and will probably be persecuted soon.

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#390689 - 02/07/13 08:55 PM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
8IronBob Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 847
Loc: Parma, Ohio, USA
Well, look at the Boy Scouts, and United Way's attacking their basic moral beliefs and culture, by forcing them to recruit gay members and leaders beyond their values. That could be quite scary, and could trickle down to disaster. Let's hope we can stand up to this, and stop United Way from forcing this on our young men in the Boy Scouts, and corrupting our youth. We need to stand up, and make sure that our young Boy Scouts are taught the conservative, Christian, deep values that we cherish, and pass that on to the next generation. There's another example of this, that I hope we can fight and win against.

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#390714 - 02/08/13 03:43 PM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: StuartK]
Apotheoun Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 2861
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: StuartK
No, but on the other hand, prostitution is rampant and abortion is ubiquitous. Russia is the pornography capital of the world; one of the most corrupt cultures on the face of the earth, where everyone and everything is for sale; shows little care or sympathy for widows, orphans and the handicapped; is rife with racism, hypernationalism and anti-semitism; is governed by an autocratic thug who uses violence and intimidation to get his way, while simultaneously enriching himself and his cronies. . . need I go on?

What know they of Russia, who do not Russia know?

America - as a society - is the fourth largest producer, distributor, and consumer of pornography in the world, and Russia as a country does not even make the top ten worldwide.

As far as abortion, contraception, and prostitution are concerned, America is no better than Russia. America is not some kind of ideal place where true freedom and morality reign supreme.

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#390718 - 02/08/13 05:03 PM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
StuartK Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 7394
Loc: Falls Church, VA
Quote:
America - as a society - is the fourth largest producer, distributor, and consumer of pornography in the world, and Russia as a country does not even make the top ten worldwide.


I was not aware that there were objective statistics collected on this subject. What metric is being used?

Quote:
As far as abortion, contraception, and prostitution are concerned, America is no better than Russia. America is not some kind of ideal place where true freedom and morality reign supreme.


Talk to people who have been there for any length of time. They will tell you it isn't even close. First, off, there is no contraception in Russia, and abortion is the fallback position. Many women have had multiple abortions, resulting in sterility. As far as prostitution goes, on any given Sunday you will find more whores on the streets of Moscow or Petersburg than you will find people in its churches.

Why is it, I wonder, that some people have this need to erect this fairy tale of Holy Russia, which never existed and does not exist today, passing over or excusing all of the crime, vice and depravity one can find without breaking a sweat, while simultaneously condemning their own society--better on almost every count--for its lesser evils which are clearly deviations from the norm? One can only conclude that familiarity has bred contempt, and, conversely, that lack of familiarity foster the view that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

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#390719 - 02/08/13 05:09 PM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
StuartK Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 7394
Loc: Falls Church, VA
Apropos of which: Thirteen Abortions for Every Ten Live Births in Russia.

Quote:
This week Russian president Vladimir Putin brought Boyz II Men to Moscow to "hopefully [give] Russian men some inspiration ahead of St. Valentine's Day," according to the Moscow Times. That is, Putin brought the music group to town to encourage love-making, and, he hopes, baby-making to offset Russia's demographic disaster.


But, according to statistics in a new book by Jonathan V. Last, it might have been a wiser move for Putin bring in a pro-life group instead. The book is titled What to Expect When No One’s Expecting.

Russia's demographic disaster, Last details, is being exacerbated by the fact that abortions are outpacing live births in Russia. "Abortion is rampant, with 13 abortions performed for every 10 live births," writes Last. "Consider that for a moment: Russians are so despondent about the future that they have 30 percent more abortions than births."

Last says that "This might be the most grisly statistic the world has ever seen. It suggests a society that no longer has the will to live."

"It seems to be a combination of factors. On the fertility side of the equation, patterns of family formation have changed dramatically since the end of the Soviet Union," writes Last. "Many couples choose long-term cohabitation as an alternative to marriage. In 1980, only 11 percent of births were to unwed mothers; by 2005 that number had shot up to 30 percent. Divorce has skyrocketed—Russia has the world’s highest divorce rate."

The problem is staggering population decline. "Russia has experienced population decline three times during the last century," writes Last. "Each period was marked by crisis. The first depopulation came from 1917 to 1923, as the Russian Empire was overthrown and the Soviet Union was forged. The second came during 1933 and 1934 as Joseph Stalin collectivized the country’s farmers, resulting in mil- lions of deaths. The third came during World War II, which cost the lives of 25 million Russians. (Remember: No nation has experienced long-term prosperity in the face of contracting population.)"


Edited by StuartK (02/08/13 05:10 PM)

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#390720 - 02/08/13 05:14 PM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: StuartK]
Mariya DS Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 132
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: StuartK
[quote]there is no contraception in Russia

Yes there is, it was in the Soviet era that it was not available. I posted statistics in a recent thread showing that abortion has been declining every year due to contraception having become widely available. Other than that, I agree with your point that every country on earth has its own set of problems and none is "holier" than the rest.

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#390722 - 02/08/13 05:20 PM Re: Russia to outlaw ‘homosexual propaganda’ [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
StuartK Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 7394
Loc: Falls Church, VA
And yet, it would seem that contraception has not reduced the number of abortions so much as it has the number of conceptions, for the ratio of abortions to live births is upside down (By way of comparison, there were approximately 250 abortions for every live birth in the United States). And with a TFR of just 1.51, despite the blandishments and incentives offered by Putin, there are several hundred thousand fewer Russians every year. At what point does population contraction pass the point of no return for a nation?


Edited by StuartK (02/08/13 05:26 PM)

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