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Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: StuartK] #391097 02/14/13 10:21 PM
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Athanasius The L Offline
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Originally Posted by StuartK
In my opinion, they should choose someone who is already in the clergy of the Metropolitan Province of Rome, and they should insist that he act foremost as diocesan Bishop of Rome, not appointing an Apostolic Administrator to handle the unpleasant chores of governing unruly Romans. With luck, it will take up so much of his time he won't have much left over for interfering in the life of other Churches. In fact, with any luck, he'll realize he can't run the Western Church as a one-man band, and will establish autonomous, territorially-delineated patriarchal Churches , with their own Patriarchs elected by synods whose bishops are elected locally.


Some of the best ideas I've ever heard.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: 8IronBob] #391098 02/14/13 10:41 PM
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You must be kidding. That's like comparing kавуни зі сливами [watermelons with plums].
The worldwide Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is the largest Eastern Catholic Church of the Byzantine Rite.
Patriarch Sviatoslav is indeed an impressive candidate for the Papal Chair. Hope he takes the name Volodymyr I. Imagine the longlasting seizures in Moscow.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Pavloosh] #391102 02/14/13 11:14 PM
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Correction:
You must be kidding. That's like comparing kavame with slevame[watermelons with plums].
The worldwide Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is the largest Eastern Catholic Church of the Byzantine Rite.
Patriarch Sviatoslav is indeed an impressive candidate for the Papal Chair. Hope he takes the name Volodymyr I. Imagine the longlasting seizures in Moscow.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Roman Interloper] #391108 02/14/13 11:55 PM
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I too would love to see His Beatitude elected Pope. The talk of his becoming papabile began the day he was elected patriarch. He has a lot of good qualities that certainly would make him a "frontrunner", not the least of which is that he speaks 9 languages.
With all the talk now about having a younger Pope, this will only boost the possibility of another Slavic Pope in the future.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Roman Interloper] #391113 02/15/13 12:16 AM
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Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

What many are missing here is that the Pope can still make this man a cardinal. There are only 117 Cardinal that have the right to vote so there are 3 opening left. Until his resignation take affect Benedict can make these appointments.

Fush BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Roman Interloper] #391117 02/15/13 01:28 AM
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True, Patriarch Sviatoslav has been good buddy-buddies with the Vatican, so I'm sure he would have rather close ties with the highest levels of the Vatican. We shall soon see...

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Athanasius The L] #391125 02/15/13 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Athanasius The L
Originally Posted by StuartK
In my opinion, they should choose someone who is already in the clergy of the Metropolitan Province of Rome, and they should insist that he act foremost as diocesan Bishop of Rome, not appointing an Apostolic Administrator to handle the unpleasant chores of governing unruly Romans. With luck, it will take up so much of his time he won't have much left over for interfering in the life of other Churches. In fact, with any luck, he'll realize he can't run the Western Church as a one-man band, and will establish autonomous, territorially-delineated patriarchal Churches , with their own Patriarchs elected by synods whose bishops are elected locally.


Some of the best ideas I've ever heard.


Perhaps so. But it's not going to happen until you get somebody at the top to start Rome thinking in a new way about what Rome means.

For the moment, however, all Roman Catholics (especially Roman Catholic priests in Rome) think that the Pope is the Bishop of Earth. All the Marian apparitions say so, after all.

That being the case, I think electing a pope with an Eastern brain is a good first step in getting the papacy to move in the direction you guys hope to see it move in.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Roman Interloper] #391126 02/15/13 04:23 AM
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Then let that Eastern cleric formally transfer to the clergy of Rome before becoming a potential candidate. Let him live in and work with the other clergy of Rome, and let him be seen as committed, first and foremost, to the pastoral care of the people of the Metropolitan Province of Rome.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Roman Interloper] #391127 02/15/13 04:24 AM
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My Stuart, what a very Orthodox thing to say!

You flatter me. But there are many Greek Catholics who think as I do.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Roman Interloper] #391128 02/15/13 04:25 AM
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Well, this would be like predicting that Metropolitan Archbishop William Skurla would be the next Pontiff. . .


If that happened, it would be vindication for Antonio Salieri and mediocrities everywhere.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Pavloosh] #391155 02/15/13 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Pavloosh
Correction:
You must be kidding. That's like comparing kavame with slevame[watermelons with plums].
The worldwide Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is the largest Eastern Catholic Church of the Byzantine Rite.
Patriarch Sviatoslav is indeed an impressive candidate for the Papal Chair. Hope he takes the name Volodymyr I. Imagine the longlasting seizures in Moscow.


He could even take the name of Josaphat, too, since if I remember my history, even though Ss. Volodymyr and Olha were the ones that brought the Church to Ukraine/Kyivan Rus, it was St. Josaphat that united the Church with Rome, iirc.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Roman Interloper] #391156 02/15/13 10:12 PM
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Wow, have a pope take the name of Josaphat Kuntsevich and you think the Greek Catholics are having a hard time now in Ukraine? There would be rioting in the streets. I cannot think of a person more despised by the Ukrainian and Belorussian Orthodox than him.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Slavipodvizhnik] #391157 02/15/13 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Slavipodvizhnik
Wow, have a pope take the name of Josaphat Kuntsevich and you think the Greek Catholics are having a hard time now in Ukraine? There would be rioting in the streets. I cannot think of a person more despised by the Ukrainian and Belorussian Orthodox than him.


Now that you mention it, opposition riots DID work pretty well for St. Josaphat's cause for union the first time around.

Of course I mostly jest, as deliberately baiting a riot would clearly be a grave sin.

Should for some reason a Pope Josaphat ever reign, however, a more appropriate response from his adversaries would be to pray for the repose of the deceased Josaphat, and the spiritual welfare of the living one.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: Roman Interloper] #391173 02/16/13 04:06 AM
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Late to the party here, I would agree with those who have pointed out that an Eastern pope would only confirm the worst popular idea about the papacy: that we ought to go and find the best man out there, and then once we have, that it's only reasonable that he should do all the deciding, being that he is the best we've got.

I prefer a more monarchist sort of idea that a man may be quite terrifically inadequate, but if he's born into a job, then he's stuck with it. The pope should ideally come from the clergy of Rome. A simple presbyter would be best.

Re: Pope Sviatoslav I [Re: JDC] #391177 02/16/13 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JDC
I prefer a more monarchist sort of idea that a man may be quite terrifically inadequate, but if he's born into a job, then he's stuck with it. The pope should ideally come from the clergy of Rome. A simple presbyter would be best.


This is a very compelling argument. It would reduce the meritocratic aura around the papacy, and the popular misconceptions you cite.

Yet if popes were always elected from the "local and simple," though, with little or no experience, then would the ultramontanes emphasize his "divine chosenness?" Because clearly he didn't "merit" the job. Centralizers will want to centralize, it seems.

Allow me to advance Stuart's proposal one step further. Perhaps it would be most ideal if the pope was only patriarch of the territory immediately surrounding Rome, making it, for lack of a better phrase, a "crown city?" This would make some of the principles of subsidiarity clearer.

Last edited by Booth; 02/16/13 01:31 PM.
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