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Sunday obligation #391662 02/28/13 06:21 PM
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J Michael Offline OP
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Does anyone know if an Eastern Catholic bishop has the authority to say that an Eastern Catholic may go to an Orthodox Divine Liturgy and that in so doing he/she fulfills the Sunday obligation? Is there any history of this happening?

(Mods: if this is in the wrong forum, please don't hesitate to move it. This seemed to me the most appropriate place to ask. But...what do I know :grin:?)

Many thanks!

In Christ,
JM

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: J Michael] #391672 02/28/13 09:42 PM
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theophan Offline
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JM:

Christ is in our midst!!

Welcome to the forum.

Bob
Moderator

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: J Michael] #391678 02/28/13 10:49 PM
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J Michael, it would not be common for an Eastern Christian of any jurisdiction to speak of a 'Sunday obligation' to be honest.

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: J Michael] #391691 03/01/13 06:32 AM
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The Melkites may fulfill their "Sunday Obligation" by attending a Liturgy at an Orthodox Church.

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: Slavophile] #391706 03/01/13 05:36 PM
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J Michael Offline OP
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Well...that's kind of a different discussion and really doesn't address my question.

From the CCEO, fwiw:
[quote]Canon 881 - §1. The Christian faithful are bound by the [b]obligation[/b] to participate on Sundays and feast days in the Divine Liturgy, or according to the prescriptions or legitimate customs of their own Church sui iuris, in the celebration of the divine praises.
§2. In order for the Christian faithful to fulfill this obligation more easily, the available time runs from the evening of the vigil until the end of the Sunday or feast day.
§3. The Christian faithful are strongly recommended to receive the Divine Eucharist on these days and indeed more frequently, even daily.
§4. The Christian faithful should abstain from those labors or business matters which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's day, or to the proper relaxation of mind and body.
http://www.jgray.org/codes/cceo90eng.html[/quote][i][/i]

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: Melkite Convert] #391708 03/01/13 05:45 PM
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J Michael Offline OP
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What about attending Vespers at an Orthodox Church?

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: Slavophile] #391763 03/03/13 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Slavophile
J Michael, it would not be common for an Eastern Christian of any jurisdiction to speak of a 'Sunday obligation' to be honest.


I posted this question on another thread here the other day and no one commented: "On an Orthodox forum on which I participate, a "spirited", if disjointed discussion is ongoing on the subject of "Sunday Obligation." This ties into the last few posts. I am interested in two things: (1) What is the popular understanding of a Sunday obligation among Eastern Catholic laity and (2) does the popular understanding differ from current Eastern Catholic official teachings. Thanks and sorry for the digression."

I agree with Slavophile, yet I suspect such is not the average lay person's understanding.

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: J Michael] #391852 03/06/13 12:31 AM
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The Roman Church sees the Sunday obligation as an obligation to attend a Catholic eucharistic liturgy of any sort anywhere within certain time parameters.

Speaking personally, I see a need to participate as fully as possible in the liturgical life of my parish. So to attend a Roman Catholic mass on Sunday does not really fulfill my "Sunday obligation." It may be the best option available when I am travelling. I am in communion with the Roman Church after all and not, sad to say, with the Orthodox. If I were far from my jurisdiction and there were only Orthodox churches available, I would feel an "obligation" to attend their Divine Liturgy or if this doesn't work out to attend vespers Saturday evening.

When I look at the church calendar, labels such as obligation, solemn, and simple tell me the relative importance of the services as the bishops see it. "Obligation" means I would need a very serious reason not to attend. Simple means I should go if I can. And the obligation is to attend services at my parish if at all possible.

To me discussions about whether a single mass could meet two obligations miss the point entirely. This is something Roman Catholics seem to be concerned about.

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: J Michael] #391931 03/08/13 01:25 AM
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Is this understanding, shared by a number of posters here--that orthodox liturgy is to be preferred if no eastern catholic one is available--the general preference of Eastern Catholic believers? Or is it a matter of opinion about which one might expect to find some differences?

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: eastwardlean?] #391936 03/08/13 01:56 AM
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Eastwardlean?,

For me as an Eastern Catholic, if I am faced with a choice between a Roman Catholic Mass and an Orthodox liturgy, there would be no hesitation - I would unequivocally choose the Orthodox liturgy.

In my experience, there are differences of opinion/practice on this among Eastern Catholics. I know many who would go to an RC Mass over an Orthodox liturgy on the basis of who we are and aren't in communion with, and/or because they believe that they are required to choose an RC Mass over an Orthodox liturgy.

David,

The idea of "Sunday obligation" is a very foreign and strange one to me personally, when we are speaking of something that comes out of love and gratitude. As far as official Eastern Catholic teaching, though, my understanding is that it does use this term, although as far as I know, it's a latinization. The "Liturgical Instruction for the Eastern Catholic Churches," (not sure if I got the title exactly right), which I believe is an official statement coming out of a Vatican office, states that an Eastern Catholic's "Sunday obligation" may be met by attending Great Vespers on Saturday evening, if one is unable to attend Sunday liturgy. (If I got any of this wrong, others more knowledgeable can correct it)

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: eastwardlean?] #391940 03/08/13 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by eastwardlean?
Is this understanding, shared by a number of posters here--that orthodox liturgy is to be preferred if no eastern catholic one is available--the general preference of Eastern Catholic believers? Or is it a matter of opinion about which one might expect to find some differences?


On this forum yes, in majority probably not. I will say I find the Orthodox are often confounded by this attitude as they will unequivocally choose the an Orthodox Church every time. For example, to reverse the situation, a Western Rite Orthodox would never go to a Latin Catholic parish on vacation if an Eastern Orthodox Churc is available.

We Eastern Catholics are very critical of Latin Catholics never attending our services to learn about us and become more familiar with us but we excuse ourselves from going to a Latin parish a couple of times a year under the guise of "consistency." This is an attitude I find troubling.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: Sunday obligation [Re: J Michael] #391941 03/08/13 03:27 AM
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Quote
We Eastern Catholics are very critical of Latin Catholics never attending our services to learn about us and become more familiar with us but we excuse ourselves from going to a Latin parish a couple of times a year under the guise of "consistency."

That's not why I excuse myself. I do so because it is not spiritually fulfilling, and at times, downright painful. Besides, the fish has no need to become acquainted with the water.

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: StuartK] #391951 03/08/13 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by StuartK
That's not why I excuse myself. I do so because it is not spiritually fulfilling, and at times, downright painful.


I'm sorry to say that this is my experience also, and my reason also for not going.

Re: Sunday obligation [Re: Jaya] #391959 03/08/13 02:59 PM
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Glory to Jesus Christ!

Not “spiritually fulfilling”?

Please do not interpret this post as confrontational, but isn’t that the whole idea we reject when others use something like that as an excuse to stay away from liturgies?

Many of our teens in particular come up with the excuse that they “don’t get anything out of” the liturgy and therefore have somewhat justified their absence from attendance and participation.

What the Church offers, however, is not the opportunity for “spiritually fulfilling” activities by which one would “get a lot out of”. Instead, the liturgy is our opportunity to worship God.

Perhaps if more of our people would view this perspective we would be further along the path of holiness that our Church has available for us.

Just a thought.

Fr Deacon El


Re: Sunday obligation [Re: J Michael] #391962 03/08/13 04:21 PM
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To quote Sayenda Nicholas of Newton:

"Down the street from my cathedral is an Antiochian Orthodox parish. Every Sunday, I will find the same liturgy celebrated there as in my own cathedral. I will hear the same music, see the same icons, experience the same spirituality, hear the same theology, find the same feasts being celebrated. And yet, I am not supposed to receive communion there.

"Down the street the other way is a Roman Catholic parish. Every Sunday, if i go there, I will find a totally different liturgy being celebrated, with different music, different art, a different spirituality, a different theology, and different feasts. Yet I am allowed to receive communion there.

"What is wrong with this picture?"

For me, Deacon El, it is a matter of receiving the rule of faith in a manner that allows me to offer right worship to God in a sincere and compelling manner. Catholic is not Catholic. I am a Byzantine Christian, formed by my rite and its entire liturgical, spiritual, theological and doctrinal patrimony. It defines how I see my faith and how I worship the Lord (give my appreciation to Deacon Gerry, for doing such a good job on my catechesis).

Quite simply, while I do not dispute the validity of the Latin rite or its liturgy, it is not my rite, it is not my liturgy, and it is not how I offer praise due to God. I've been there, done that, and rather than go through the motions without any real involvement, I would rather attend an Orthodox Liturgy where, even if denied the Chalice, my whole person would still be engaged in true worship.

As Archimandrite Robert Taft wrote, "The Oriental loves his liturgy because it is uniquely his, not because it is also yours".

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