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Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: Peter J] #386344 09/19/12 05:56 PM
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Roman Interloper Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter J
Oh, right behind this door. (Opens doors slightly to confirm that the Spanish inquisitors are standing ready on the other side.)


Wow. I have to imagine it's safe to say he wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

wink

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: ConstantineTG] #392510 03/20/13 08:34 PM
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My earlier statement,
"...if any of our eastern catholic hierarchs did finally have enough of Roman nonsense and decided to break communion with Rome (like the Carpatho-Russians, for example), I would have a hard time NOT following them!"

I admit, I have changed my views on. Running to the Orthodox will not do any good. We ARE Orthodox Churches in communion with Rome-Rome has it faults, injustices, etc...but so do the Orthodox, and, in my opinion, in some ways, moreso. The grass is not always greener on the other side. After further study I believe we need to be in communion with the chief hierarch of the Church, the Bishop of Rome. Going through all the evidence both sides bring up to support their position can be quite difficult, agonizing even, (it has been for me)-both claim to be absolutely true. But after going through both, the Eastern Catholic position seems to make most sense to me; I'll stick with the successor of St. Peter in Rome and try in my little way, to help fix the problems therein-firstly, by prayer.

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: ConstantineTG] #392518 03/20/13 09:00 PM
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Well, since we ARE Catholic, it makes it more open to those from the Latin tradition to come to the Eastern faith, and fulfill the same sacramental obligations as they would. It also opens up for those that want to move from Latin Rite to Eastern Rite easy, too, such as I'm in the middle of doing. Now mind you that while I'm still canonically Latin, I do have a large spirituality in the Byzantine tradition, and it might get to the point where I might change my canonical position after some time.

Last edited by 8IronBob; 03/20/13 09:01 PM.
Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: RussianCath] #392525 03/20/13 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RussianCath
My earlier statement,
"...if any of our eastern catholic hierarchs did finally have enough of Roman nonsense and decided to break communion with Rome (like the Carpatho-Russians, for example), I would have a hard time NOT following them!"

I admit, I have changed my views on. Running to the Orthodox will not do any good. We ARE Orthodox Churches in communion with Rome-Rome has it faults, injustices, etc...but so do the Orthodox, and, in my opinion, in some ways, moreso. The grass is not always greener on the other side. After further study I believe we need to be in communion with the chief hierarch of the Church, the Bishop of Rome. Going through all the evidence both sides bring up to support their position can be quite difficult, agonizing even, (it has been for me)-both claim to be absolutely true. But after going through both, the Eastern Catholic position seems to make most sense to me; I'll stick with the successor of St. Peter in Rome and try in my little way, to help fix the problems therein-firstly, by prayer.

Let's face it. Byzantine Catholics are NOT Orthodox in communion with Rome. They should be but are not. Attend Vigil and Divine Liturgy at Saint Sergius Russian Orthodox Cathedral on Broadview. Then go to St. John Ruthenian Cathedral. They are NOT the same thing! And every time the Ruthenians do something liturgically they get it wrong.

To be Orthodox is to accept our ancestry and to follow what we received from our fathers. To be Byzantine Catholic is to reject our ancestry and to slowly replace it with elements of the Latin Church.

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: ConstantineTG] #392533 03/21/13 03:33 AM
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Quote
Let's face it. Byzantine Catholics are NOT Orthodox in communion with Rome.

Ruthenians are a solipsistic lot. They think they are the only Byzantine Catholics, ignoring the many other particular Churches, whose membership dwarfs their own. I would say that there are plenty of Ukrainians, Melkites, Romanians and Russians who do not suffer from the Carptho-Rusyn Identity Confusion Syndrome, and consider themselves nothing less than "Orthodox Christians in communion with Rome".

But, having been told by their hierarchs in no uncertain terms that they are not Orthodox Christians (hell, they can't even bring themselves to use the "O-word" in the Liturgy), while the hierarchs try to carve out a small pond in which they can be big fish swimming the tertium quid, and browbeat the clergy and the laity into going along with them, it's no surprise that the Ruthenians have no idea who or what they are supposed to be.

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: StuartK] #392562 03/21/13 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by StuartK
Quote
Let's face it. Byzantine Catholics are NOT Orthodox in communion with Rome.

Ruthenians are a solipsistic lot. They think they are the only Byzantine Catholics, ignoring the many other particular Churches, whose membership dwarfs their own. I would say that there are plenty of Ukrainians, Melkites, Romanians and Russians who do not suffer from the Carptho-Rusyn Identity Confusion Syndrome, and consider themselves nothing less than "Orthodox Christians in communion with Rome".

But, having been told by their hierarchs in no uncertain terms that they are not Orthodox Christians (hell, they can't even bring themselves to use the "O-word" in the Liturgy), while the hierarchs try to carve out a small pond in which they can be big fish swimming the tertium quid, and browbeat the clergy and the laity into going along with them, it's no surprise that the Ruthenians have no idea who or what they are supposed to be.


This reminds me to look for a St. Alexis Toth icon...

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: ConstantineTG] #392570 03/21/13 11:34 PM
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Ahh, yes, that was celebrated along with St. Patrick, according to what Fr. Hayduk over at St. John the Baptist Cathedral was talking about last Sunday. I think that finding a St. Alexis Toth icon would almost be as tough as finding one for St. Patrick, Enlightener of Ireland.

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: Lester S] #392572 03/21/13 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Lester S
Originally Posted by StuartK
Quote
Let's face it. Byzantine Catholics are NOT Orthodox in communion with Rome.

Ruthenians are a solipsistic lot. They think they are the only Byzantine Catholics, ignoring the many other particular Churches, whose membership dwarfs their own. I would say that there are plenty of Ukrainians, Melkites, Romanians and Russians who do not suffer from the Carptho-Rusyn Identity Confusion Syndrome, and consider themselves nothing less than "Orthodox Christians in communion with Rome".

But, having been told by their hierarchs in no uncertain terms that they are not Orthodox Christians (hell, they can't even bring themselves to use the "O-word" in the Liturgy), while the hierarchs try to carve out a small pond in which they can be big fish swimming the tertium quid, and browbeat the clergy and the laity into going along with them, it's no surprise that the Ruthenians have no idea who or what they are supposed to be.


This reminds me to look for a St. Alexis Toth icon...


Go for the whole lot - including St. Alexis - the Synaxis of the Saints of Carpatho-Rus! http://www.orthodoxgoods.com/icon-of-the-synaxis-of-the-saints-of-carpathorus.html

(I would remind my EC friends that when the late Metropolitan Nicholas proclaimed the Synaxis of local Saints, he expressed his regret that at this time he could not include the 20th century Martyrs of the Greek Catholics who were murdered by the communists, Blessed Pavel and Blessed Theodore, but he urged his Orthodox people to pray for them and remember their martyrdom.

I would also argue that the actions of St Alexis, Bishop Chornock and their followers may likely have saved the Eastern Rite from absorption into the Roman Church in the Americas by putting the real fear into Rome that they would lose the majority of Greek Catholics here were they to continue to pursue extreme Latinizing. Perhaps in the spirit of the new Pope, the posthumous cancellation of the formal excommunications of these men would be a positive sign to the Orthodox world.)

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: Joe in Slavland] #392573 03/21/13 11:55 PM
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I don't think it's fair to generalize about all parishes. My UGCC parish has replaced all of the western murals with icons. We sing the liturgy. We do the profound bows. We support our married priest. Our infants receive the three Mysteries of Initiation together. Our religious ed teaches Byzantine theology. I know it's not that simple, but these are examples.

It's easy to become discouraged. But if you work in discouragement with faith, you are doubly blessed for your effort. And it builds character. The Cross is always joy and pain in this life.

Prayer and fasting are the answer. Work for your parish. Praise God for your Eastern Catholic parish. If someone wants to Latinize your parish, or break you off from the Catholic communion, go down swinging (with love). Carry a torch in the darkness, so that the future may have what you do. Jesus won't abandon you. Take chances.

If you don't succeed, then at least you will have a life of love and work to show Our Lord when you die.

If pagan temples in Rome could have been turned into churches, then surely it is a smaller feat for God to de-Latinize a parish. If the pagan empire could be overthrown, then certainly God can bring us all back into communion. Prayer and fasting!

My prayers are with my brothers and sisters who want to see the ECCs both authentic and evangelizing.

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: StuartK] #392636 03/23/13 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by StuartK
Ruthenians are a solipsistic lot. They think they are the only Byzantine Catholics, ignoring the many other particular Churches, whose membership dwarfs their own.


I have to admit that that annoys me too. But, to be fair, there are Melkites and Ukrainian Catholics who don't want to be called "Byzantine Catholics".

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: Peter J] #392639 03/23/13 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by StuartK
Ruthenians are a solipsistic lot. They think they are the only Byzantine Catholics, ignoring the many other particular Churches, whose membership dwarfs their own.


I have to admit that that annoys me too. But, to be fair, there are Melkites and Ukrainian Catholics who don't want to be called "Byzantine Catholics".


Then there's also the Romanian Church, even though they only have a handful of "Byzantine Catholic" parishes in the whole country, I'm wondering what their stance would be between Greek-Catholicism and Orthodoxy for the most part. What would you say there?

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: ConstantineTG] #392641 03/23/13 04:29 PM
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I am Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic because that is where God clearly planted Fr. deacon Stan and myself, with our family 34 years ago today. We entered the Church on Lazarus Saturday in 1979.

In '86 God moved us to Birmingham, then planted us in St George Melkite Byzantine Greek Catholic Church, to grow and serve.

As Metropolitan Basil, of Blessed Memory, told my husband on the day of his ordination, "you are to serve where God has planted you"!

I miss the Metropolitan!

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: Pani Rose] #392658 03/23/13 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Pani Rose
I am Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic because that is where God clearly planted Fr. deacon Stan and myself, with our family 34 years ago today. We entered the Church on Lazarus Saturday in 1979.

In '86 God moved us to Birmingham, then planted us in St George Melkite Byzantine Greek Catholic Church, to grow and serve.

As Metropolitan Basil, of Blessed Memory, told my husband on the day of his ordination, "you are to serve where God has planted you"!

I miss the Metropolitan!


So do I, in fact, Metropolitan Basil was also the Bishop here in Parma before being installed in Pittsburgh, small world. In fact, wasn't he the bishop after Bishop Andrew Pataki was reassigned to the Eparchy of Passaic, I wonder? Something about that sounds familiar.

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: ConstantineTG] #392681 03/24/13 07:32 PM
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I stand for life. I also stand for life from conception until natural death. Not all of Orthodoxy stands for this. Therefore, I cannot in good conscience accept any faith that is not 100% pro-life.

Re: Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? [Re: 8IronBob] #392690 03/24/13 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 8IronBob
Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by StuartK
Ruthenians are a solipsistic lot. They think they are the only Byzantine Catholics, ignoring the many other particular Churches, whose membership dwarfs their own.


I have to admit that that annoys me too. But, to be fair, there are Melkites and Ukrainian Catholics who don't want to be called "Byzantine Catholics".


Then there's also the Romanian Church, even though they only have a handful of "Byzantine Catholic" parishes in the whole country, I'm wondering what their stance would be between Greek-Catholicism and Orthodoxy for the most part. What would you say there?


I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you talking about the Romanian Church that is Orthodox, or the Romanian Church that is Greek Catholic?

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