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Caught between the devil (the Austrian-Hungarians) and the deep blue sea (the Russians),the Rusyns,Lemkos,Galicians and all of the peoples along along the fault line between east and west were torn between the two dominant world powers which overshadowed them. Duchnovych himself found much to admire in the Russians.

I would point out that the retention of strictly Uniate customs was not limited to ACROD. Well into the 1960's many Rusyn founded Metropolia (now the OCA) retained customs like First Communion, baptism by aspersion and so on. As a more eastern orientation developed parish by parish things changed. ACROD entered Orthodoxy without the rose colored glasses that earlier converts possessed, but by 2000 most of the distinction between now OCA or ACROD Rusyn founded parishes had blurred. (It has to be conceded that post Vatican 2 de-Latinizations had a parallel impact on the former Greek Catholic communities as well.)

But, as I have pointed out on prior occasions, the existing liturgical practices of the Eparchy of Muchachevo are both inherently eastern and uniquely Rusyn. If this was what was similar to what was practiced there and in the Eparchy of Presov in the 19th century during the formative years of St. Alexis Toth, +Bishop Chornock and others it is no wonder that the chipping away over time of various promises made in the Unia became too much to bear. I would argue that integration of the Greek Catholics into the Roman Rite in the Americans might have succeeded have Rome not overreached by too quickly mandating celibacy and property control. It is even conceivable that had European history taken a different turn in the aftermath of the first war, the same fate might have awaited the ever loyal Greek Catholics of what is now Slovakia and Ukraine. (I mean no disrespect, but the same fierce desire to be honest to their heritage, to cherish the rights they held under the unions and to preserve their faith MIGHT have driven many of those who were martyred in defense of their faith by the Communists to have acted just like Toth and Chornock were the circumstances reversed had Rome acted in Europe as she had in the New World. )



However, all of this is mere speculation and far afield from the original subject.

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Originally Posted by DMD
Caught between the devil (the Austrian-Hungarians) ...

I wouldn't want to say that on CAF. blush wink (I sometimes even wonder if I'll get in trouble for criticizing people who think the Union of Brest, Union of Uzhorod, etc. were a good idea! whistle)

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I know, DMD: I used to know an OCA priest who had Solemn First Communion as a kid, the way ACROD and Greek Catholics who have rebyzantinized now do it.

Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by DMD
Caught between the devil (the Austrian-Hungarians) ...

I wouldn't want to say that on CAF. blush wink (I sometimes even wonder if I'll get in trouble for criticizing people who think the Union of Brest, Union of Uzhorod, etc. were a good idea! whistle)

That upsetment makes sense given the true-church claim. The legitimate difference of opinion among Catholics is whether convert-making like that or, the favored view now, concentrating on persuading the whole Orthodox Church to come back is better.

I think Austria-Hungary treated Greek Catholics far better than Irish-American churchmen did, which explains many Rusyns' shock at being treated badly by the latter.

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Solemn First Communion in the old Metropolia = First Confession now in ACROD, Greek Catholic parishes that have rebyzantinized, and maybe the OCA too. Babies commune so the First Communion ceremony and party are now for the first Communion after the 7-year-olds make their first Confessions. Nice.

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Originally Posted by The young fogey
That upsetment makes sense given the true-church claim. The legitimate difference of opinion among Catholics is whether convert-making like that or, the favored view now, concentrating on persuading the whole Orthodox Church to come back is better.

I think Austria-Hungary treated Greek Catholics far better than Irish-American churchmen did, which explains many Rusyns' shock at being treated badly by the latter.

I'm afraid I'm rather ignorant of the Austrian-Hungarian side of things (excepting that I know that back-in-the-day Transylvania was part of the Austrian-Hungarian kingdom, which played a major role in the existence of the Romanian Greek Catholic Church), but I can believe what you say there.

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Originally Posted by Peter J
(excepting that I know that back-in-the-day Transylvania was part of the Austrian-Hungarian kingdom, which played a major role in the existence of the Romanian Greek Catholic Church)

I mean Kingdom of Hungary.

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Originally Posted by The young fogey
I know, DMD: I used to know an OCA priest who had Solemn First Communion as a kid, the way ACROD and Greek Catholics who have rebyzantinized now do it.

Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by DMD
Caught between the devil (the Austrian-Hungarians) ...

I wouldn't want to say that on CAF. blush wink (I sometimes even wonder if I'll get in trouble for criticizing people who think the Union of Brest, Union of Uzhorod, etc. were a good idea! whistle)

That upsetment makes sense given the true-church claim. The legitimate difference of opinion among Catholics is whether convert-making like that or, the favored view now, concentrating on persuading the whole Orthodox Church to come back is better.

I think Austria-Hungary treated Greek Catholics far better than Irish-American churchmen did, which explains many Rusyns' shock at being treated badly by the latter.


Benign neglect is more like loo e it for fear of galvanizing a pro-Russian "fifth element" along the eastern borderlands. Classic "real politik" in action. It also explains why the Greek Catholic hierarchy in Presov and Ungvar ignored Rome and continued to send married priests to America as quickly as Moscow could mint New ones. There was much non-faith based, pragmatic "flip flopping" back before 1920. My grandparents' worldview, and that of their peers was very insular. Their religion was "nas virnyj" - our Faith - not viewed in terms of Catholicism or Orthodoxy. The clergy knew, but the average Joe or Mary didn't care until "nas virnyj" was challenged. My parents generation was somewhat more aware of Catholicism and Orthodoxy as they were, for the most part, more worldly unless they grew up in a "patch" by a mine or a mill.

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Makes sense...

Quote
...given the regionalism in much of the church’s history and especially in the East: grassroots folk traditional Catholicism... Po-našomu church as its own thing, both, and neither exclusively, Catholic and/nor Orthodox, like the Melkites in Syria and Lebanon now... Can anybody confirm that about East Slavic immigrants last century?

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