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Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: Michael_Thoma] #395534 06/14/13 06:10 PM
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Nelson Chase Offline
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Don't forget about Western (Catholic) monastics like the Cistercians, Trappists, Hieronymites, and others who are less academic and more contempletive


Who are the Hieronymites?

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #395535 06/14/13 09:38 PM
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desertman Offline
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I want to apologize for my tone on this thread. I don't know what my problem is. My comments about Western monasticism have been unfair and very disrespectful. Please forgive me.
blush

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: desertman] #395536 06/14/13 09:42 PM
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Peter J,
I also want to apologize to you for my tone in my response to your post earlier.

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: desertman] #395537 06/14/13 10:04 PM
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[Linked Image]

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #395644 06/20/13 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
On May 30th of this year, the UGCC Redemptorist Father Nicholas Kutz reposed in the Lord, leaving a testament behind that has caused some controversy in Ukraine (Sambir region to be exact). Fr. Kutz was himself persecuted by the former Soviet regime. Here is my translation of his testament:
...
Thank you for posting this, my brother.


Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic

I ask forgiveness of all whom I may have offended. Good bye! Hoping to meet all in the Heavely Kingdom. Christ is Risen! Hieromonk Nicholas Kutz (Redemptorist).

Memory Eternal!

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: Hesychios] #395750 06/21/13 11:23 PM
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Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Dear Hesychios,

Do Redemptorists normally refer to themselves as "hieromonks?"

Alex

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #396185 07/01/13 04:55 PM
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It is interesting that I can not find anything about this letter in Ukrainian... even on the official Redemptorist site.

This letter won't be popular in Ukraine.

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: Vox Populi] #396205 07/02/13 09:44 AM
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Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Dear Vox Populi,

You have to know where to look! smile

http://uaoc-ls.com/2013/06/10/zapovit-ieromonaha-mykolaya-kutsya/

I'm sure there will be many, Catholic and Orthodox, who won't like this letter. It disturbs our black and white perspectives.

Alex

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: Vox Populi] #396206 07/02/13 09:44 AM
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Diak Offline
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This letter won't be popular in Ukraine

Actually, it will be in some quarters. And it is not inconsistent with other Redemptorists before him, such as Blesseds +Mykola (Charnetsky) and +Vasyl (Velychkovsky) have said (Blessed +Vasyl was especially fond of the nec plus, nec minus, nec aliter saying).

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: Vox Populi] #396227 07/02/13 01:56 PM
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BTW, judging from the critical comments from the Orthodox on the site, a lot of people feel very uncomfortable with the reposed Hieromonk's comments, both Orthodox and Catholic (EC's have tried to suppress the circulation of the letter which began right at his funeral!).

And don't even bother looking for it on any Redemptorist site!

Alex

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #396231 07/02/13 02:57 PM
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Peter J Offline
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Hi again.

Your comments, earlier, about what he defines as Orthodoxy, and that we can all affirm it, come as no surprise. In fact, I was pretty much assuming that interpretation already (which, in turn, probably comes as no surprise to you, since you know me as well as I know you); but by the same token, they don't really help.

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #396233 07/02/13 03:43 PM
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theophan Offline
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Alex:

Christ is in our midst!!

It's always been interesting to me that the Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer #1) in the Latin mentions

Quote
et omnibus orthodoxis and for all who
atque are orthodox in belief and who
Catholicae et Apostolicae profess the Catholic and
fidei cultoribus. Apostolic faith.
(from the Latin Mass Society website)

I don't ever remember the word "orthodox" ever being in the English translation but it's there in the original.

I think we all need to get over the use of terms that each side has taken as its own exclusively. Christians labeled themselves "catholic" by the end of the first century to distinguish themselves from sects that had cropped up. And "orthodox" simply means we have it right, according to the Tradition passed from the Apostles and the Fathers. The added words "in belief" are clarification that may or may not be understood in the Latin, because I've seen older translations that do not include them. Simply because our orthodoxy has become unfamiliar to each otehr does not mean that we are not all catholic--of the Church of all ages, times, and peoples.

Bob

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: theophan] #396236 07/02/13 04:02 PM
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^ Just as "pravoslavnyj christiane" was removed from some Eastern Catholic Old Slavonic Liturgy books. It was in the ones we used when I was a boy.


Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: theophan] #396237 07/02/13 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by theophan
I think we all need to get over the use of terms that each side has taken as its own exclusively. Christians labeled themselves "catholic" by the end of the first century to distinguish themselves from sects that had cropped up. And "orthodox" simply means we have it right, according to the Tradition passed from the Apostles and the Fathers. The added words "in belief" are clarification that may or may not be understood in the Latin, because I've seen older translations that do not include them. Simply because our orthodoxy has become unfamiliar to each otehr does not mean that we are not all catholic--of the Church of all ages, times, and peoples.

Bob

However, most of those cases don't rise to the level of "For one's eternal salvation it is absolutely necessary to live in accordance with the rules of the holy Christian Orthodox faith." (emphasis added) Some do, of course, but I think those are the cases that we should be trying not to imitate.

Re: Ukrainian Redemptorist says salvation is in Orthodoxy [Re: theophan] #396247 07/02/13 05:03 PM
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Dear Bob,

I hereby do nominate you to be our Ambassador to the Catholic Answer Forums to explain this very point as you have so eloquently!

Alex

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