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Jun 7th, 2012
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: Nelson Chase]
#396769
07/15/13 02:27 PM
07/15/13 02:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
Chicago
IAlmisry
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Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
Chicago
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Do issues like this one not highlight the need for a strong primacy of the Bishop of Rome? Nathan Monk was the last straw: a 28-year-old showoff priest wannabe who loudly quit everything after eight months. He was the bomb that blew up Western Rite ROCOR, even though he wasn't WR when he quit. He was one of those hastily ordained for WR. Sad story really. I for one was taken in by his outreach to the homeless. No, they do not.
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: Nelson Chase]
#396777
07/15/13 05:35 PM
07/15/13 05:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 357
Kansas
chadrook
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 357
Kansas
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Do issues like this one not highlight the need for a strong primacy of the Bishop of Rome? Nathan Monk was the last straw: a 28-year-old showoff priest wannabe who loudly quit everything after eight months. He was the bomb that blew up Western Rite ROCOR, even though he wasn't WR when he quit. He was one of those hastily ordained for WR. Sad story really. I for one was taken in by his outreach to the homeless. Nelson, I dont understand what this has to do with Rome? Fogey, you are wrong about Nathan Monk. He was only a part of the issue. This goes way back the the Fr John Shaw years and the secret western rite parishes that found their hiding places in the hinterlands of middle and western America. It wasn't until his elevation to Bishop and gramata for internet activity that landed him on the east coast. Here, where there is an abundance of Russians, that his activities landed him in hot water.
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: Nelson Chase]
#396782
07/15/13 07:52 PM
07/15/13 07:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
New England
Peter J
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Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
New England
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Do issues like this one not highlight the need for a strong primacy of the Bishop of Rome? Alright! Post #28, I win the pool!
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: Peter J]
#396784
07/15/13 08:37 PM
07/15/13 08:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
Chicago
IAlmisry
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
Chicago
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Do issues like this one not highlight the need for a strong primacy of the Bishop of Rome? Alright! Post #28, I win the pool! What is post #28?
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: Fr David Straut]
#396793
07/15/13 11:53 PM
07/15/13 11:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,157
Washington, PA
Fr. Deacon Lance
Moderator
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Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,157
Washington, PA
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The Western Rite has not disappeared in the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR), nor will it do so, in my opinion. You may notice that I can speak with some authority on this subject. None of the four members of the Commission created by the Synod of Bishops is hostile to the Western Rite. In fact, three of the four (including its President) are on record supporting the Western Rite in ROCOR. Please, let's have no more nonsense. In taking in an existing body, and allowing the leadership of that body to operate the way they had been operating outside the Church, several regrettable decisions were made by ROCOR. These need to be corrected and our Western Rite communities set on the right path. It's as simple as that.
Archpriest (sometimes styled 'Protopriest') David Straut Are the Western Rite parishes being forced to adopt the Byzantine Rite or not?
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
#396795
07/16/13 12:29 AM
07/16/13 12:29 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
New Jersey
Fr David Straut
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Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
New Jersey
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Are the Western Rite parishes being forced to adopt the Byzantine Rite or not? Father Deacon, I would have thought from what I just said (you quote it) that I very clearly said that they are not being forced to adopt the Byzantine Rite. Fr David
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: IAlmisry]
#396806
07/16/13 07:57 AM
07/16/13 07:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
New England
Peter J
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Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
New England
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Do issues like this one not highlight the need for a strong primacy of the Bishop of Rome? Alright! Post #28, I win the pool! What is post #28? I bet on posts # 26-30. Post #28 was the first one to say the ROCOR decision points to a need for a strong papal primacy, so I won the pool.
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: Fr David Straut]
#396807
07/16/13 09:10 AM
07/16/13 09:10 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 357
Kansas
chadrook
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 357
Kansas
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The Western Rite has not disappeared in the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR), nor will it do so, in my opinion. You may notice that I can speak with some authority on this subject. None of the four members of the Commission created by the Synod of Bishops is hostile to the Western Rite. In fact, three of the four (including its President) are on record supporting the Western Rite in ROCOR. Please, let's have no more nonsense. In taking in an existing body, and allowing the leadership of that body to operate the way they had been operating outside the Church, several regrettable decisions were made by ROCOR. These need to be corrected and our Western Rite communities set on the right path. It's as simple as that.
Archpriest (sometimes styled 'Protopriest') David Straut Father, since you sit on the commission can you clarify these two points? 8) To address an epistle to the clergymen and communities of the Western Rite regarding the need for them to adopt the order of divine services of the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, while preserving, when necessary, certain particularities of the Western Rite. 9) To emphasize our adherence to the rules and traditions of the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church in general and of the Russian Orthodox Church in particular. It makes since that Fr. Anthony is on the commission, he has been running a western rite liturgy for 20+ years.
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: Fr David Straut]
#396809
07/16/13 10:03 AM
07/16/13 10:03 AM
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Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,157
Washington, PA
Fr. Deacon Lance
Moderator
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Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,157
Washington, PA
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Are the Western Rite parishes being forced to adopt the Byzantine Rite or not? Father Deacon, I would have thought from what I just said (you quote it) that I very clearly said that they are not being forced to adopt the Byzantine Rite. Fr David I ask because these two points seem to contradict that: 8) To address an epistle to the clergymen and communities of the Western Rite regarding the need for them to adopt the order of divine services of the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, while preserving, when necessary, certain particularities of the Western Rite. 9) To emphasize our adherence to the rules and traditions of the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church in general and of the Russian Orthodox Church in particular.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
#396810
07/16/13 10:30 AM
07/16/13 10:30 AM
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,712
Private
The young fogey
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,712
Private
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Are the Western Rite parishes being forced to adopt the Byzantine Rite or not? Father Deacon, I would have thought from what I just said (you quote it) that I very clearly said that they are not being forced to adopt the Byzantine Rite. Fr David I ask because these two points seem to contradict that: 8) To address an epistle to the clergymen and communities of the Western Rite regarding the need for them to adopt the order of divine services of the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, while preserving, when necessary, certain particularities of the Western Rite. 9) To emphasize our adherence to the rules and traditions of the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church in general and of the Russian Orthodox Church in particular. Fr David's the authority here but this sounds like shutting down the WR to me.
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: chadrook]
#396818
07/16/13 12:10 PM
07/16/13 12:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,964
Takoma Park, MD
Two Lungs
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,964
Takoma Park, MD
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Let's see: Moose and Elks have lodges. Knights of Columbus have councils. My guess is that post #28 is VFW or American Legion. 
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Re: ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?
[Re: Nelson Chase]
#396820
07/16/13 12:59 PM
07/16/13 12:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
New England
Peter J
Member
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Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
New England
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I bet on posts # 26-30. Post #28 was the first one to say the ROCOR decision points to a need for a strong papal primacy, so I won the pool. I'm glad that I could help Peter. Please send me my share of the earnings.   Sorry  that's against the rules.
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