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Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #398251
08/20/13 11:38 PM
08/20/13 11:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
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StuartK Offline
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Quote
That will soon be four popes to become saints with the upcoming canonization of Blessed Pope John Paul II, who visited Ukraine in November 2001.


Yeah, this is beginning to get a bit troubling. Does winning the election automatically make you a saint?

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: StuartK] #398254
08/21/13 08:36 AM
08/21/13 08:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 57
Detroit, MI
lmier Offline
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Originally Posted by StuartK
Quote
That will soon be four popes to become saints with the upcoming canonization of Blessed Pope John Paul II, who visited Ukraine in November 2001.


Yeah, this is beginning to get a bit troubling. Does winning the election automatically make you a saint?


If you believe that if the electors were guided by the Holy Spirit in the choice, you would think that might be an indication of being on the "Fast Track". As long as they were faithful to gospel.

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: griego catolico] #398257
08/21/13 09:12 AM
08/21/13 09:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Orthodox Catholic  Offline OP
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Dear Amigo Griego,

I meant St John Paul II as the third pope. So the tally is: St Clement I, St Martin I, and St John Paul II.

Alex

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: Lawrence] #398258
08/21/13 09:14 AM
08/21/13 09:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Orthodox Catholic  Offline OP
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Canada
Dear Lawrence,

Actually, I agree with you! It is just too modern a building.

And, personally, I secretly hoped that, by now, there would be perfect unity between the UGCC and Ukrainian Orthodoxy so that there would not have been a need for separate UGCC churches and the cathedral in Kyiv.

And why couldn't the UGCC kept its main centre in Lviv, and not venture into Kyiv which is really an Orthodox city?

Just some thoughts.

Alex

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: StuartK] #398259
08/21/13 09:20 AM
08/21/13 09:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Orthodox Catholic  Offline OP
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Dear Stuart,

Well, not automatically. But St John Paul II certainly grew tremendously in his experience of Theosis in Christ by means of the Holy Spirit.

And miracles through his intercession have been reported to Rome (in their thousands) even by agnostics.

Anyone who could appeal to people of all stripes like that was certainly very special, to say the least.

When I was at the legislature, I worked on a proposed legislative bill to declare a "Pope John Paul II Day" in Ontario. The petition we sent out came back with thousands of signatures, 5,000 signatures in only one day (I counted the petition signatures three times because no one believed there were that many signatories in one 24-hour period).

One of the signatories came in to see me, an Orthodox Jew who said his father insisted he bring in his petition. He said Pope John Paul saved his father's life during the war, hiding him and then working with the Underground to get him out of Europe.

If the Vox Populi has anything to do with it (and I think you would strenuously insist that it does), then I saw the Vox Populi speak very loudly even when it came to this secular endeavour.

As for winning the election, as you know, the Coptic Popes of Alexandria are ALL canonized saints in that Church, beginning with St Mark the Evangelist.

Alex

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: StuartK] #398263
08/21/13 09:42 AM
08/21/13 09:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,125
Florida
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Epiphanius Offline
Za myr z'wysot ...
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Florida
Originally Posted by StuartK
Originally Posted by griego catolico
That will soon be four popes to become saints with the upcoming canonization of Blessed Pope John Paul II, who visited Ukraine in November 2001.

Yeah, this is beginning to get a bit troubling. Does winning the election automatically make you a saint?

I personally liked the way the people of Rome called for JP2's canonization at the time of his funeral--almost like the way the people of Milan once called for Ambrose to be named bishop!

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #398327
08/22/13 05:13 PM
08/22/13 05:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
New England
Peter J Offline
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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
And why couldn't the UGCC kept its main centre in Lviv, and not venture into Kyiv which is really an Orthodox city?

I think we've had a discussion on that. I don't recall the name of the thread.

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: Peter J] #398328
08/22/13 05:35 PM
08/22/13 05:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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I remember that thread, but don't remember any infallible pronouncements on the conclusion! smile

You Rock!

Alex

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #398333
08/22/13 07:35 PM
08/22/13 07:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,833
SF Bay Area, CA
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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
Actually, I agree with you! It is just too modern a building.

I am not a fan of modernist looking Churches either, but I hope the general appearance of the building will improve when more iconography is placed on the walls inside.

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: Apotheoun] #398334
08/22/13 07:40 PM
08/22/13 07:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 979
Northeastern Pennsylvania
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It's far from complete. Of course it will "improve".

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #398335
08/22/13 10:25 PM
08/22/13 10:25 PM
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The church can be listed as one of the ugliest I have ever seen. Could make the cover of "Ugly As Sin" book.

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: Ray S.] #398336
08/22/13 11:35 PM
08/22/13 11:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Orthodox Catholic  Offline OP
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Well, I've seen worse Churches in my travels. . .

However, that's not what will make or break it. We Eastern Christians, Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox etc. can sometimes surround ourselves with beautiful icons, church buildings, chants and vestments in the midst of thick clouds of incense.

That may gratify many of us, but its not all that is about Christianity.

As a religion teacher to hundreds of Eastern Catholics and Orthodox over the last twenty years, I know there are so many adults and teenagers who attend Church with all that wonderful "Eastern beauty" but whose lives are empty because Christ isn't in them.

The events in Kyiv last weekend at least had this going for them - they exuded the Presence of Christ.

I felt this only by seeing the videos and speaking with those who were in attendance.

I would trade that Presence for all the icons, incense and cupola-laden church roofs in the world.

There is a crisis in our pews and that is the crisis of prayer and worship. Yes, liturgical and ecclesial beauty can aid that immeasureably. So why is it that so many adults don't have a prayer life but go to Church and Communion every Sunday, and may even sing in the choir?

What terrible crisis are we really in?

Alex

Last edited by Orthodox Catholic; 08/22/13 11:37 PM.
Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #398341
08/23/13 08:33 AM
08/23/13 08:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
New England
Peter J Offline
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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
I remember that thread, but don't remember any infallible pronouncements on the conclusion! smile

You Rock!


Um ... okay.

[Linked Image]

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #398347
08/23/13 12:23 PM
08/23/13 12:23 PM
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Rain drenched California
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griego catolico Offline
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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
Dear Amigo Griego,

I meant St John Paul II as the third pope. So the tally is: St Clement I, St Martin I, and St John Paul II.

Alex


Your'e absolutely right! My bad. Read the post incorrectly. Thank you for the correction.

Re: Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Kyiv Consecrated [Re: Ray S.] #398348
08/23/13 12:27 PM
08/23/13 12:27 PM
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Rain drenched California
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Originally Posted by Ray S.
The church can be listed as one of the ugliest I have ever seen. Could make the cover of "Ugly As Sin" book.


I wouldn't go that far. It certainly doesn't look like this: http://veneremurcernui.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/fuksas-575x351.jpg

The cathedral does look like a church to me, although modern in style. I am not crazy though about the green dome- I believe it is copper that since changed color.

Not sure why the UGCC went for a modern look. I wished it had looked more like the future cathedral in Kyiv for the UOC-MP: http://festzmi.org/sites/festzmi.org/files/imagecache/highslide_full/IMG_1360.JPG

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