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How exactly do some Protestant fellowships draw so many people to Jesus Christ? Here is a picture of a local Protestant fellowship and one of they Sunday services. This photo really makes me wonder just exactly how they do it? Sunday Protestant Fellowship Service [tinyurl.com]

I know some will be tempted to attack or dismiss what they see in this photo. They'll want to explain how deficient their "worship service" is. I'm not interested in that. That's all axiomatic. I want to know how they draw so many people to their Sunday worship services?

This photo is in stark contrast to a great deal of empty (of all traditions) Catholic, Orthodox and mainline Protestant churches across the world.

If I look closely at that photo, it's clearly not the building (which they rent for something like $11K/month here locally.) It's a Butler Building warehouse with a Reznor shop heater and roll-up doors in place of air conditioning. It's also clearly not the furnishings.

This is either the third or fourth Protestant fellowship started in this building. They begin (usually in a rented hall of some sort on Sundays), move to this building for 3-5 years, save $$$ and then go build a simple but nice campus somewhere nearby.

Exactly how do they do it? Making people understand that God loves them? Fellowship? Prayer?

I see a lot of value in truly understanding how they draw people to Jesus Christ. One thing I know. The answer isn't trivial.

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Sugar high.

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Dear Franciscus,

This was a topic I chose to study in my undergraduate program.

For a year, I went to a number of these groups/churches to study them. In one case, I was able to hand out a questionnaire, with the approval of their leadership (although others weren't happy with that and one actually attacked me physically - but to no avail, thanks to five years of training as an amateur wrestler! :)).

The groups emphasized immediate experience of the Divine through prayer, laying on of hands etc. There was a lot of subjective religious experience which the individual had control of (or not). There was a sense of personal empowerment, individualism and the idea that each person was their own "priest." As a result, there was full participation by everyone, everyone prayed out loud, read the scripture etc. and did all of this at home, at work and everywhere they went.

Somehow this became personally alive for them, the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit became readily accessible to each person through an immediate relationship with Christ (although that experience was mediated by the community that kept egging people on toward speaking in tongues and the like - one felt like a horrible failure if one didn't have those experiences).

When I said that I didn't obtain any "gifts," could not speak in tongues, could not prophesy or heal, I was given special "exercises" to do each day for several weeks. That wasn't going to go anywhere as I refused to go into their mediumistic sessions where they put hands on you and introduced all sorts of psychological suggestions etc.

One could say that their good relations with Christ were "dependent" on God "doing His part" in their lives. One didn't become spiritually deeper for the sake of that, but for the sake of very material realities.

It was, to me, a quintessential relationship based on an "exchange" of goods between God and the people.

Alex

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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
Dear Franciscus,

This was a topic I chose to study in my undergraduate program...

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I'm aware of what such fellowships are good at. They are far better than most Catholic parishes at administration and public relations. Often FAR better preaching. Far better at building "community" and empowering the average Joe (or Josephine.) They are also more welcoming than most Catholic parishes in my experience. But that alone doesn't explain the drawing power of these fellowships, not by a long shot.

Obviously the band music and the "iconography" isn't doing it either -- although those are the first things some Catholic clergy try to replicate as "the secret."

I think though it you add all the positives of such parishes along with a Mary Kay-inspired "health and wealth" message, that might be what turns the trick.

Very interesting insight. Thanks.







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Here in the Seattle area there are literally thousands of Slavic new immigrants and everywhere they live there are all kinds of "evangelical" style churches. I wonder where all these people were proselytized? Granted probably most of them were not exposed much to traditional churches in the old country. Meanwhile, the local Orthodox churches get a few conservatives from Europe annd even the Byzantine Catholic church seems to be not very ethnically "slavic" Is this phenomena also in other metropolitan areas?

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In Endicott, NY, the Protestants have apparently accomplished the seemingly impossible. There is a rather large congregation in a suburban former United Methodist building called the "Russian Ukrainian Baptist Church." Seriously, the Ukrainians there are from the eastern border areas with Russia, but still..... wink

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I know that a few of my own family members in Ukraine became members of the Baptists because they offered money and I think some other benefits.

Once they got what they wanted/needed, they left. But others don't leave.

Some years back, I was teaching religion in a Saturday Ukrainian school when one teacher recently come from Ukraine approached me to ask if I would speak with her sister, who was being drawn into a particular sect/cult.

That cult had worked on her in Ukraine and were now working on her to convert here. They even pushed aside her parents amidst cries of "Get out you . . .!"

I agreed to speak with her. At this the principal came at me and threatened me with expulsion if I did that "on school property." "But this is a Catholic school . . ." I replied, to no avail.

One thing led to another - and I failed that person. I later found out that the principal's sister-in-law belonged to that cult as well.

I was so angry at myself that I resigned.

Alex

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I think we need to be careful not to allow our emotions to keep us from critically examining the good AND the bad things these different fellowships do. Labeling them as "cults" is unproductive. The terms "cult" is often used as a pejorative today yet if ANY element of Christianity are "cults" (NOT a negative word as many thing) by definition it's the Catholics and Orthodox.

I'm trying to understand the good they do? I think from purely an administrative standpoint such fellowship are often managed far better than many Catholic/Orthodox parishes. They are better at building community/fellowship. They are better at defining/building/empowering "ministries." Their preaching is often superior to what is heard on our side of the fence. They often have stronger outreach and they are often far more accepting.

I think in many ways they simply out-work us to be honest. Their gifts from God are rather modest compared to those of our faith. They also have terrific competition -- grow or die. This environment has forged from fairly capable "fellowship builders."

If we take take the good they do and combine it with the tremendous God-given gifts we enjoy -- being part of the Church, the seven sacraments, the liturgies, etc. I think we would really have something.

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Originally Posted by DMD
In Endicott, NY, the Protestants have apparently accomplished the seemingly impossible. There is a rather large congregation in a suburban former United Methodist building called the "Russian Ukrainian Baptist Church." Seriously, the Ukrainians there are from the eastern border areas with Russia, but still.....

It would be fascinating to study this situation without emotion. WHAT do they do that is so attractive to people?

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There were "Eastern rite Presbyterians" in Canada some decades ago, apparently making inroads among the Ukrainian immigrants there.

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Originally Posted by Franciscum
How exactly do some Protestant fellowships draw so many people to Jesus Christ? Here is a picture of a local Protestant fellowship and one of they Sunday services. This photo really makes me wonder just exactly how they do it? Sunday Protestant Fellowship Service [tinyurl.com]

...

Exactly how do they do it? Making people understand that God loves them? Fellowship? Prayer?

I see a lot of value in truly understanding how they draw people to Jesus Christ. One thing I know. The answer isn't trivial.
It's hard to generalize. As you said in the title, some Protestants draw many to Christ ... and I think likewise we could say that some Catholics draw many to Christ, and some Orthodox draw many to Christ.

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Dear Stuart,

You are right again!

I used to have an illustrated book on this Presbyterian group that depicted an iconostasis . . . with no icons.

Alex

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Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by Franciscum
How exactly do some Protestant fellowships draw so many people to Jesus Christ? Here is a picture of a local Protestant fellowship and one of they Sunday services. This photo really makes me wonder just exactly how they do it? Sunday Protestant Fellowship Service [tinyurl.com]

...

Exactly how do they do it? Making people understand that God loves them? Fellowship? Prayer?

I see a lot of value in truly understanding how they draw people to Jesus Christ. One thing I know. The answer isn't trivial.
It's hard to generalize. As you said in the title, some Protestants draw many to Christ ... and I think likewise we could say that some Catholics draw many to Christ, and some Orthodox draw many to Christ.

That's a good point. Here in the US, many Mainline Protestant fellowships are also struggling -- take a look at the Anglican Communion for instance.

On the other hand the evangelical and fundamentalist Protestant fellowships tend to be doing a great deal better. So there is a fairly clear separation between those that are doing well and those that are not.

While I know there must be Catholic parishes that are thriving in the USA, I certainly don't know of too many (arch)dioceses that are thriving overall.

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Dear Franciscus,

You are correct - but I was not referring to any evangelical movement with big congregations, but to a real cult which specializes in mind control.

Such groups are truly "cults" and have nothing to do with the evangelical groups with all their enthusiasm etc.

Alex

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Quote
This was a topic I chose to study in my undergraduate program...

That is one of the best post on the topic I have read. Thank you Dr. Alex!

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