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Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world #400631 10/25/13 03:09 PM
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Tomassus Offline OP
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Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world
Moscow and Constantinople Mutually at Odds


Friday, October 25, 2013
Posted by Teófilo de Jesús
http://vivificat1.blogspot.com/2013/10/deep-fissures-develop-in-eastern.html

The following article is from the Greek Europe Reporter http://eu.greekreporter.com/2013/10/21/conflicts-in-the-orthodox-ecumenical-council/ (hat-tip to Byzantine Texas http://byztex.blogspot.com/2013/10/constantinople-and-moscow-at-odds-over.html ):

A fierce conflict between the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the Patriarchate of Moscow, that may lead to a new schism, threatens the forthcoming Orthodox Ecumenical Council.
The reason is the effort of the Russian Church to degrade the primacy of Constantinople in the orthodox world and to expand in China and Japan.

This expansive strategy has clear political extensions of geopolitical character, with the assistance of president Putin.

Patriarch Bartholomew reacted intensely, sending a letter to the Patriarch of Moscow, Cyrillus, and two others, of informative character to Archbishop Ieronymos.

According to the letter to Cyrillus, the facts that caused the reaction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate are: the suppression of the contribution of the church of Constaninople to the christianization of Kievan Rus, the degradation of the Patriarchate’s delegation, the improper enhancement of the “autocephalous” Orthodox Church in America, and the unannounced presentation of a text that disapproved the violence in the Middle East. This had already happened in 2011, at the Council of high-ranking Bishops of Orthodox Churches of the Middle East, in Phanari.

The interest of the Russian Church for proselytism in China and Japan is not only religious, but also political. The text concerning the violence in Middle East is included in that framework.

It seems that the Tsaric subconscious comes to the surface, connected to the old theory of ”Third Rome” and this, despite being refuted, consists the main target. The opulent grand events contribute to the gold wrapping.

All the above have already caused serious side-effects. Most important of which, is the danger of cancellation of the Orthodox Ecumenical Council.


Commentary. I can't say I am surprised, for Orthodox ecclesiology allows for this kind of disorder. I have pointed out elsewhere that the Russian Orthodox Church is reasserting its view as the richest and most populous of the national Orthodox Churches and that their leaders care little about ancient precedents. True, Russian Orthodox missionaries were the first ones from among the Orthodox who opened mission churches in China and Japan, but the fact remains that Constantinople holds a principal role as guide of Orthodox missions, a role formally granted to that Church by Orthodox synodical decisions.

The long-awaited, often-delayed "Holy and Great Council of the Orthodox Church" has been in the plans for several decades now. It would be shame if internecine warfare between Moscow and Constantinople were to derail it.


Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: Tomassus] #400634 10/25/13 05:48 PM
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Gee, Moscow and Constantinople at each other's throats again. What is the world coming to?

Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: StuartK] #400636 10/25/13 06:21 PM
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Playing out at the same time, the Patriarch of Antioch has withdrawn ties with Jerusalem over the establishment of a parish in Qatar and pulled out of the regional Assemblies of Bishops, including North America due to Constantinople's alleged support for Jerusalem in this matter.(There is always more to this than meets the eye....) The Patriarch of Serbia participated in an interfaith conference in Jakarta this week with the blessing of the regional ROCOR exarch in Australia but without that of the EP exarch who resides somewhere out there. The EP and ROCOR are fighting over two little parishes in Taiwan.

Of course this is all being played out with three great 'prizes' on the horizon - the massive emigration of Arab Christians out of the mideast, the money deemed available in the United States and the big enchilada - Ukraine.

We Orthodox seem to be stuck in cart ruts left in the wagon road in the 15th century.


Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: Tomassus] #400637 10/25/13 06:33 PM
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How's universal primacy looking now, boys? Maybe some disinterested third party could settle your food fights for you?

Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: StuartK] #400638 10/25/13 06:40 PM
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This article appeared in the secular press, in a paper devoted to economic business. It has been rubbished as sensationalism.

Yes,there is conflict between Moscow and Micklegarth. The latter clings to the faded glory it had under a long dead empire. Moscow is vibrant and confident, the largest Church by far in the Orthodox world, and with money at its disposal. It is also reaching out in missionary work in Asia, China, Nepal, Thailand, etc.

All honour to Constantinople, its many centuries of leadership in the Christian world, its many centuries of martyrdom, its many great Saints and theologians. Let it retain its first place in the diptychs. But it is understandably feeling nervous about the 1000 pound gorilla in Moscow.

Last edited by Hieromonk Ambrose; 10/25/13 06:52 PM.
Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: StuartK] #400639 10/25/13 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by StuartK
How's universal primacy looking now, boys? Maybe some disinterested third party could settle your food fights for you?


That didn't work out so well either.

Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: StuartK] #400643 10/25/13 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by StuartK
How's universal primacy looking now, boys? Maybe some disinterested third party could settle your food fights for you?
How did that work out for you with the Ukrainian dog fight in the States? I believe the Vatican created two new Churches--Byzantine Catholic and Ruthenian Catholic. Nothing else could bring peace but to keep them apart in separate corners... or so I've heard. frown

Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: Hieromonk Ambrose] #400644 10/25/13 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Hieromonk Ambrose
Originally Posted by StuartK
How's universal primacy looking now, boys? Maybe some disinterested third party could settle your food fights for you?
How did that work out for you with the Ukrainian dog fight in the States? I believe the Vatican created two new Churches--Byzantine Catholic and Ruthenian Catholic. Nothing else could bring peace but to keep them apart in separate corners... or so I've heard. frown


Well, it did bring a lot of folks into Orthodoxy after a fashion.

Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: StuartK] #400646 10/25/13 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by StuartK
How's universal primacy looking now, boys? Maybe some disinterested third party could settle your food fights for you?


Boy, that's rather uncharitable.

Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: Hieromonk Ambrose] #400647 10/25/13 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Hieromonk Ambrose
This article appeared in the secular press, in a paper devoted to economic business. It has been rubbished as sensationalism.


Yes.

Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: Hieromonk Ambrose] #400648 10/25/13 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Hieromonk Ambrose
I believe the Vatican created two new Churches--Byzantine Catholic and Ruthenian Catholic.


I believe they are one in the same.

Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: Recluse] #400650 10/25/13 09:40 PM
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Father is in New Zealand, cut him some slack. He obviously is referring to the initial efforts to unite the Rusyns and Ukrainians under Bishop Ortynsky. That didn't work out as we all know and a prolonged period of turmoil ensued.

Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: DMD] #400651 10/25/13 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DMD
Father is in New Zealand, cut him some slack. He obviously is referring to the initial efforts to unite the Rusyns and Ukrainians under Bishop Ortynsky. That didn't work out as we all know and a prolonged period of turmoil ensued.
Someone will have to explain it to me. I thought the fighting among Ukrainians was quite divisive and the Vatican founded the Ruthenian Catholic Church in the States for Ukrainians who refused to belong to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.

Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: Hieromonk Ambrose] #400655 10/25/13 11:01 PM
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Certainly the problem was that the UGCC was very nationalistic within the western Ukrainian historical context. It was anti-Russian imperialism and against the Russian Orthodox Church of the Tsars and later of the USSR.

The Ruthenians were outside that stream of cultural/national consciousness - although not all.

But that is past. Today, the "big enchilada" in Ukraine is a wild card with Orthodoxy there divided betweeen a nationalistic Ukrainian Orthodox Church (which has been excommunicated by Moscow) and the UOC-MP (which is the ROC in Ukraine that is constantly trying to put on a Ukrainian-friendly face).

Apart from the issue of who will win between the New and Third Rome's, the other one is what will happen between Kiev and Moscow.

And that is very real and threatens to be very significant for the future of Orthodoxy.

So significant, in fact, that one might predict that part of the outcome will be the movement of the EC's back to their mother Orthodox Churches - once the mothers start to respect the integrity of each other's household boundaries.

Alex

Re: Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world [Re: StuartK] #400661 10/26/13 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by StuartK
How's universal primacy looking now, boys? Maybe some disinterested third party could settle your food fights for you?


When I think of "disinterested third party", I think of Rome.

Said no one ever.

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