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Re: Between two traditions
AdsumJDS #402395 12/27/13 02:42 AM
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This was a very good read. I appreciate it very much. I am also almost done with the 101 Q and A on ECC. Do you have more? :D I just deleted the one private message I had, if my limit was one then maybe yours will go through now. I have the box checked to allow private messages.

Re: Between two traditions
AdsumJDS #402396 12/27/13 02:45 AM
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Moderator, is it possible for you to move the messages from my first post all the way down to the bottom to its own thread some where?

Re: Between two traditions
AdsumJDS #402397 12/27/13 02:54 AM
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Concerning the filioque, I had written the following a couple years back when I was in dialogue with an EO. Sorry that the Greek does not show up in the post.

It is my understanding that to an Orthodox Christian ekporevomenon only means “to be from as a source.” I agree with this statement. Let's take a look at the Creed for a moment. In the Greek text of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed it states: to ek tou Patros ekporevomenon (proceeds from the Father). This is correct and I fully agree with the text and its theology. Therefore, I agree that to state in the Greek to ek tou Patros kai tou Yiou ekporevomenon (proceeds from the Father and the Son) would be incorrect and this is why that the Catholic Church does not allow the addition kai tou Yiou to the formula to ek tou Patros ekporevomenon in the Greek text of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, even if the Greek text is being used for liturgical purposes by Latins. This is important, since the addition only occurred in Latin for litergical purposes.

It is also my understanding that the seventh Ecumenical council, meeting at Nicaea in 787, by the Patriarch of Constantinople, St Tarasius, formulate the Creed in this manner: to ek tou Patros dia tou Yiou ekporevomenon.(who takes his origin from the Father by or through the Son).

Ok, if we agree with this, that the Father is the sole source of the Holy Spirit as the principle without principle and that according to the seventh Ecumenical council this is by or through the Son but not as a second principle or source, or cause then we agree theologically. Correct?

Also, the filioque clause is not a kai tou Yiou clause. In other words, when we are considering the theology of the filioque clause we must understand it not in the Greek but in the Latin. Since the Latin Bible had translated Jn 15:26 (para tou Patros ekporevetai) by "qui a Patre procedit", the Latins translated the to ek tou Patros ekporevomenon of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed by "ex Patre procedentem". Therefore, since there is not a direct equivalence between the Greek ekporeusis and the Latin processio we must understand the differences. As it is the Latin procedit carried the connotation of consubstantiality and therefore there is an implicit filioque in keeping with the doctrine of parachoresis (Greek). Therefore, the Latin filioque must be interpreted according to the Greek to ek tou Patros ekporevomenon. In conclusion, the Catholic Church's meaning of the Latin filioque is in perfect agreement with to ek tou Patros dia tou Yiou ekporevomenon. (who takes his origin from the Father by or through the Son)."

Maybe there is more involved here because from what I have heard is that to speak in terms of the filioque causes an "imbalance" in the three persons. It was once charged that it is in relation to this imbalance that the West as an "imbalanced view of the Bishop of Rome." Even though I do not fully understand that perspective, I do think that for the most part their shouldn't be any real contention with the theology of the filioque, though I do agree, as did several Popes, that the filioque probably should not be added.

Re: Between two traditions
ccr0057 #402399 12/27/13 08:53 AM
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Dear Corey,

Write to the Administrator (at the email address on the bottom of the forum page--forum@byzcath.org) and ask him if you can receive private messages now, or give him your email to send on to AdsumJDS to contact you.

All new posters are given a trial period where they are not allowed to send or receive private messages..the message you are getting about a full mailbox is just a glitch.

Hope this helps,
Alice, Moderator

Re: Between two traditions
Corey Chambers #402401 12/27/13 09:06 AM
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Corey, I have left my email address on my profile page. I will be very glad to write to you as often as you like and share my own experiences with you. I will really look forward to hearing from you!

Re: Between two traditions
AdsumJDS #402411 12/27/13 04:32 PM
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Alice, thanks for the information. I will send the email shortly. AdsumJDS I do not yet have permission to view your profile page. Please feel free to contact me through my facebook page, since it can be found publicly anyways.

https://www.facebook.com/corey.l.chambers

Just be warned that I am one of the best Donkey Kong players in the world so you will mostly find posts about Classic Arcade Gaming, a hobby of mine. So if you see that, you know you are in the right place. :)

Re: Between two traditions
Corey Chambers #402414 12/27/13 05:51 PM
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Corey, I think I must be one of the few people in the world who does not have FaceBook... but, I know you will soon have permission to view my profile; I will just wait, but with great anticipation to hear from you. Although you do not know me yet, we have a lot in common. So, I will just wait to hear from you via email. In the meantime, just hang in there (!) and continue to give yourself to the Lord. O Most Holy Mother of God, Seat of Wisdom, pray for us.

Re: Between two traditions
ccr0057 #402441 12/29/13 05:49 PM
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I would like to know if a married man can be ordained to the priesthood in the Ruthenian, Byzantine Rite to serve in the United States. I have heard that this was "forbidden" perhaps due to potential scandal. Though I have also heard that maybe this has begun to occur. What do you say on the topic. In ten to twenty years, do you foresee the possibility of a married priest serving in the United States? If this already occurs, does anyone know the requirements and stipulations for a married man with children considering/investigating the priesthood? Are there any recent articles on the subject? Thanks for you help.

Re: Between two traditions
Corey Chambers #402445 12/29/13 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Corey Chambers
I would like to know if a married man can be ordained to the priesthood in the Ruthenian, Byzantine Rite to serve in the United States. I have heard that this was "forbidden" perhaps due to potential scandal. Though I have also heard that maybe this has begun to occur. What do you say on the topic. In ten to twenty years, do you foresee the possibility of a married priest serving in the United States?



There are already such married priests in most or all of the eparchies, although they are "imported."+Gerald imported one, and is contemplating more. He said that the hardest part was actually the health insurance . . .

Quote

If this already occurs, does anyone know the requirements and stipulations for a married man with children considering/investigating the priesthood? Are there any recent articles on the subject? Thanks for you help.


A former RC will not be ordained, as it requires approval from Rome which will not be granted.

Re: Between two traditions
dochawk #402446 12/29/13 10:34 PM
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There is always the UGCC which did ordain a former RC who is married. They seem to have less regard for what Rome thinks.

Re: Between two traditions
dochawk #402447 12/30/13 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by dochawk

There are already such married priests in most or all of the eparchies, although they are "imported."+Gerald imported one, and is contemplating more. He said that the hardest part was actually the health insurance . . .


They are not all "imported". One in Parma and two in Phoenix are "homegrown".


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: Between two traditions
Fr. Deacon Lance #402448 12/30/13 01:30 AM
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So what you are saying is that since I am a Roman Catholic, switching rites would not allow me to become a priest in the future? I wonder if this will change in the future.

Last edited by Corey Chambers; 12/31/13 12:22 PM.
Re: Between two traditions
dochawk #402480 12/31/13 12:21 PM
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Quote

A former RC will not be ordained, as it requires approval from Rome which will not be granted.


Is this absolutely true at this time? Does anyone else confirm this fact?

Re: Between two traditions
ccr0057 #402483 12/31/13 03:27 PM
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I have heard that in Hungary and Slovakia, the bar to large numbers of Latin rite men to becoming Greek Rite priest is the frequent fasting. I wonder if fasting were part of the Greek rite culture in the U.S. would the change of rite phenom. be more widespread if the Greek rite eparchies more openly promoted a married clergy.
Maybe they should have secular jobs like many Orthodox if insurance is an issue?
Obamacare for married priests? [;-)>

Re: Between two traditions
Corey Chambers #402527 01/03/14 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Corey Chambers
So what you are saying is that since I am a Roman Catholic, switching rites would not allow me to become a priest in the future?

I don't think it can be ruled out. However, I wouldn't recommend counting on it either.

Also, if you haven't already you should find out what a typical salary would be.

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