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Matins The Hours Vespers Presanctified Gifts during LENT #403460 02/16/14 12:38 AM
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haydukovich Offline OP
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The Presanctified Gifts Liturgy has lenten melody

Hours? 3rd hour 6th etc
Daily Vespers ?
Sunday Matins ?
Divine Liturgy on Sunday - never lenten melody right?
which is confusing since technically Sat Evening Great Vespers is Sunday ... but during Lent it's Presanctified

Are there Lenten Melodies during those? or only for the Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts?

Enlighten me please ...

Last edited by haydukovich; 02/16/14 12:48 AM.
Re: Matins The Hours Vespers Presanctified Gifts during LENT [Re: haydukovich] #403466 02/16/14 09:16 AM
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ByzKat Offline
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For historical reasons, during the Great Fast there are really two day-night cycles going on - one the usual order beginning at Vespers, and one running from midnight to midnight. Also, there are no hard and fast rules for the melodies used in the common parts of the services; a lot depends on local tradition.

BUT

Monday through Friday are fasting days; the Eucharist is not celebrated except on the feast of the Annunciation (when it is held in the evening on the feast itself).

In churches that use prostopinije, the "Lenten melody" for responses may reasonably be used at all services on Monday morning through Friday evening.

Saturday and Sunday are Eucharistic days, on which the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (Saturdays) and St. Basil (Sundays) would normally be celebrated. Lenten melodies would NOT be used from Saturday morning through the late afternoon of Sunday.

Great Vespers and Sunday Matins are celebrated as usual on Saturday evening and Sunday morning, and the hymns of the Resurrection in the tone of the week are combined with the hymns of the Triodion. (I am not sure I understood your comment above, but the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts is never celebrated on Saturday evening.)

Vespers on Sunday evening is a special case, since this service returns us to the more strict fast of the weekdays. By tradition, the service begins with the usual melodies, and moves to the Lenten form of the service halfway through.

Please note that the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts largely fell out of use for several decades, and with it the so-called "Lenten melody." During its gradual re-introduction, some parishes chose to use the Lenten melody for other services on Lenten weekdays, and some used it as "the Presanctified melody." Again, there is no strict rule; it is a matter of custom.


Re: Matins The Hours Vespers Presanctified Gifts during LENT [Re: haydukovich] #403473 02/16/14 10:48 PM
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haydukovich Offline OP
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I'm not sure I understood my own comment on Presanctified as Vespers.

I'm almost 100% certain that the local custom for Presanctified Melodies during SAT Vespers is what was going on - since you have enlightened me.

In fact it was a little weird - Vespers with Presanctified melodies combined with Divine Liturgy if I recall correctly.

Anyway - I hope to forget all that - and do liturgically the form I believe is more correct - Vespers Matins and Divine Liturgy as you mentioned.

There is a lot to know liturgically and keeping track of it all requires a Church dedicated to the Rubrics and Typicon.

It helps to have someone like you in charge of the MCI website and music and hymnody - you are going to make an outstanding Deacon - probably the best ever - they should make you a priest someday as well - hopefully that is in your plans.


Re: Matins The Hours Vespers Presanctified Gifts during LENT [Re: haydukovich] #403474 02/16/14 10:51 PM
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haydukovich Offline OP
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I would be interested to know at what point the Sunday Vespers goes Resurrectional Tones to Presanctified Tones.


Re: Matins The Hours Vespers Presanctified Gifts during LENT [Re: haydukovich] #403482 02/17/14 04:39 PM
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ByzKat Offline
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Up through the end of the Lamplighting Psalms and stichera, and the singing of O Joyful Light, you are still in "Sunday time." These are followed by special Lenten prokeimena with their own melodies. In the parishes I have attended, it goes to Lenten melodies at Make us worthy, O Lord (Spodobi Hospodi). That is also what is given in the MCI books.


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