The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
The Cub, P H, Hardrada, DMP, Kyrie Eleison
5601 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 50 guests, and 422 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
OL EuroEast II (2007) Group
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,725
Posts411,827
Members5,601
Most Online2,716
Jun 7th, 2012
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
"Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! #403548
02/21/14 08:09 PM
02/21/14 08:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 396
USA
Anna Offline OP
Member
Anna  Offline OP
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 396
USA
The author of this poorly written, theologically flawed and insulting article is a contributor to Fr. Barron's "Word on Fire" blog. The original photo that accompanied the article showed a Ukrainian priest risking his life in the recent protests! After an angry outcry from Eastern Catholics and others the photo has now been replaced with one of Blessed Miguel Pro. Unfortunately however the article can still be accessed on the blog site. Shame on the author, Jared Zimmerer. I am very disappointed in Fr. Barron for not taking action to remedy this offense against Eastern Catholics as well as married priests within the Latin tradition. Two steps forward, three steps back-or so it seems!

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #403549
02/21/14 08:20 PM
02/21/14 08:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 309
Virginia USA
I
Irish_Ruthenian Offline
Member
Irish_Ruthenian  Offline
Member
I

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 309
Virginia USA
Okay, editing done. Found the article.

Let's rip this thing:

I would not want my priest to marry for the simple fact that, as a man, leadership requires focus. I want my priest to lead. I want my priest to be the head of his family. Were all priests to have a biological family at home, no matter how you see it, his heart would be trying to turn two different directions in matters of leadership.

Entirely the author's highly subjective and Roman biased opinion.

To give a dire example, in the case of a catastrophe, I would want my priest to be at the front of the lines leading his flock to shelter.

Perhaps he should Google "Father Adam Sexton" a priest in Nanticoke, PA, whose rectory burned down while he was celebrating Liturgy. When one of his children stuck his head in the altar area and informed Father Sexton, the good priest's response was to the effect, "I'm celebrating Liturgy now." and continue the Liturgy.

If the priest had a biological family of his own, he would first think of their safety before his flock as the natural instinct would drive his protector reaction towards sheltering his own.

Somehow people who want to oppose something they really don't like always seem to come up with some utterly rare and ridiculous point to make, as if the rarity is the norm. This is a red herring.


Well, we currently live in a spiritual battle. One in which the souls of our loved ones are constantly at risk. I want a priest who tends to his flock before all else.

Entirely subjective opinion that a married priest cannot do this. This is also a slap in the face to all the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic priests who have been married over the centuries and have done wonderful work in both raising their families and tending their flock.

I think that the implications of priestly fatherhood have been either ignored or misunderstood by the mainstream of society and perhaps this is because the very fatherhood and masculinity of Christ has been mythologized or challenged. I want a priest who acts In Persona Christi. Christ Himself was celibate and so I would expect those who are acting in His place and dispensing the sacraments to His flock to live accordingly.

Then kindly explain to me, if this is such a necessity, how the first pope, one Peter, was married. Kindly explain to me how the scriptures state that the bishop should be the husband of one wife? Kindly explain to me, if this is a canonical norm, how's come for the first thirteen centuries, the East and West had married priest as a matter of policy.

The vocation of the priest is more than just another way of life; it is a concrete reality of the spiritual marriage we hope to endure in the celestial embrace. Were a priest to give his body to another, in a way, he is dissolving that reality for those who see him as he is, a man branded in the name of Christ, dying daily for his Bride, and giving his body to the mission She reflects.

Charity, and keeping this a family forum, prohibits me from expressing in plain language what nonsense this is. If you really want to have a "concrete reality" of the spiritual reality, then you MUST have a married priest. After all, if Christ is the divine Bridegroom, then how does a celibate priest reflect the marital state of such a marriage. To be a proper icon of the Trinity, i.e. two in union from whose union proceeds a third, then a priest MUST be married! You are completely bass ackwards on this, sir!

I know how hard it can be to raise a family, be a loving husband, have a full-time job, work on my own spiritual life, take care of the house, pay bills, and all of the other hardships men are willing to endure in order to have biological offspring.

No, you do NOT add to that because first of all, you wouldn't have an outside job. The rectory would be cared for by your parishioners, if they are any kind of caring parish. This is more made up nonsense.

Add to that, running an entire parish, hearing confessions, being ready at any moment to leave for a parishioner in need, allow every waking moment to be devoted to the needs and wishes of the parish, effectively participate in the goings-on of the community, I might very well pull my hair out or lose my sanity. A man can only do so much, and he ought to do that well. Being a virtuous father is no halfhearted vocation and it requires much more than most realize. I want a priest who is fully dedicated and focused on his mission, saving my poor soul and the souls of those our Lord has put in his charge.

I got into this argument over at a Roman forum about a year ago. They brought up the norror of a harried priest trying to run a parish of 5,000 souls and raise a family. I told them that was hogwash because if the Roman Rite would allow for married men, they would have more priests and a parish of 5,000 souls might have 10 priests instead of just one. I told them point blank that this "problem" was a self-inflicted wound.

The very element of masculinity calls all men to a state of fatherhood. Whether that state is fulfilled in the biological rearing of children or in the spiritual nurturing of a flock, the bidding remains the same.

And you are saying he can't do both?

To be sure, I want a priest who lives according to the traditional vow he has taken. Were that vow to change I believe he would be doing an injustice to both himself and the mission of the Church as well as those he intends to lead. I don’t want a priest whose flock is secondary. Maybe this is indeed selfish, but I’m ok with that.

Well, I'm not and neither are many, many people in the East, especially when it comes to Western meddlesomeness in our ecclesial business. Your article does no one in the East any favors at all. It reinforces the idea that celibacy is a dogma rather than a discipline, and it could lead the more unstable in Church history and discipline to consider Eastern Catholics as not Christians. Kind of like Bible Fundamentalists do. Is that what you want?

Last edited by Irish_Ruthenian; 02/21/14 08:46 PM.
Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Irish_Ruthenian] #403551
02/21/14 08:25 PM
02/21/14 08:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 396
USA
Anna Offline OP
Member
Anna  Offline OP
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 396
USA

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #403552
02/21/14 08:37 PM
02/21/14 08:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,431
Hollidaysburg, PA
theophan Offline
Moderator
theophan  Offline
Moderator
Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,431
Hollidaysburg, PA
Christ is in our midst!!

Just proves that it doesn't take intelligence or a theological background or any knowledge of Church history to blog your ignorance on the Internet. Obviously hasn't seen the St. Elias website where a married priest has built a great congregation out of a very small flock to start and still raise a good family, not to mention be a shining example of what a married man in covenant relationship with his wife ought to be.

Bob

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #403553
02/21/14 08:42 PM
02/21/14 08:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 294
East of the West
M
Mark R Offline
Member
Mark R  Offline
Member
M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 294
East of the West
For those who do not know, there is a veritable cottage craft in more conservative Roman Catholic circles which preoccupies itself with apologetics. Many are fine converts from evangelical Protestantism and have thus been breast-fed, so to speak, on arguing. They often reflect the rather "chastely minimal" teachings of the Catholic Church in their own subcultural funhouse mirror. They are often corroborated or egged on through friendships or by people from similar backgrounds and by others who share their maximalist opinions. Pope Benedict did not care for apologetics for explaining too much away -- maybe he never encountered plain partisan hyperbole, you know, like all Catholics must be like Roman Catholics.

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #403554
02/22/14 01:45 AM
02/22/14 01:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 979
Northeastern Pennsylvania
Pavloosh Offline
Member
Pavloosh  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 979
Northeastern Pennsylvania
All one needs to say about the article is "hogwash".

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Pavloosh] #403555
02/22/14 07:06 AM
02/22/14 07:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 47
The Colony, TX
C
CDB1718 Offline
Member
CDB1718  Offline
Member
C

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 47
The Colony, TX
Originally Posted by Pavloosh
All one needs to say about the article is "hogwash".

Fr. Barron's media activity, his evangelization blog, and his Catholicism series that's promoted for RCIA, means he is becoming the mouthpiece for what it means to be Catholic. Hogwash isn't enough to counter the harm articles like this cause. We can evangelize the author so he can introduce God instead of creating manmade barriers to the Lord.

http://www.stsophiaukrainian.cc/resources/marriedclergy/

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: CDB1718] #403556
02/22/14 12:07 PM
02/22/14 12:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 396
USA
Anna Offline OP
Member
Anna  Offline OP
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 396
USA
Very well done St. Sophia's! I have contacted Word on Fire and asked for three things: 1. Remove the article (it can still be accessed on their WOF blog) 2. Issue an apology. 3. Educate the author on the truths of Catholicism, Eastern and Western. I also let them know in no uncertain terms that unless or until they do this Fr. Barron's reputation will suffer since he is the figurehead of the website and the wound to unity will perdure.

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #403560
02/22/14 01:26 PM
02/22/14 01:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
S
StuartK Offline
Member
StuartK  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
The article has since been removed. The mindset that wrote it has not.

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: StuartK] #403561
02/22/14 02:33 PM
02/22/14 02:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 396
USA
Anna Offline OP
Member
Anna  Offline OP
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 396
USA

Stuart, thank God for that! Ironically the blog that has taken its place is "Sts. Cyril & Methodius, Models of Inculturation and Evangelization".

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #403572
02/23/14 08:38 AM
02/23/14 08:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 264
upstate NY
Booth Offline
Member
Booth  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 264
upstate NY
Nice work!

God bless Fr. Barron for his openness to criticism, and also Mr. Zimmerer, who from his blog appears to love the church even if (I believe) wrong about this issue.

This may have been a providential opportunity to assert the goodness of married clergy and open others' hearts to them, praise God.

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Irish_Ruthenian] #404430
03/22/14 10:40 PM
03/22/14 10:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 82
Mississipi, USA
F
Fr. John Morris Offline
Member
Fr. John Morris  Offline
Member
F

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 82
Mississipi, USA
Eastern Orthodox do not want Priests to marry either. A married man can be ordained to the Priesthood, but a Priest cannot get married. I think that the characterization that a celibate Roman Catholic Priest is more dedicated to his vocation than a married Eastern Orthodox Priest is very unfair. I am on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I have gotten out of bed many times in the middle of the night to minister to a family who has just lost a loved one. More often than not, I have sacrificed the welfare, and happiness of my wife and children to minister to my flock. One important difference is that in America at least, Orthodox parishes are much smaller than most Roman Catholic parishes. Thus, I can get to know my people and their spiritual needs much better than a Roman Catholic Priest who has to minister to over 1,000 people. I can also understand what they are going through, because as a married man with children, I have had similar experiences. Finally as a married man with children, I am one of the people, not a separate cast.

Archpriest John W. Morris

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #404440
03/23/14 01:29 PM
03/23/14 01:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
S
StuartK Offline
Member
StuartK  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
Quote
A married man can be ordained to the Priesthood, but a Priest cannot get married.

In general, no, he can't. But exercising his oikonomia, a bishop can allow a priest to remarry. It is not unknown, and I suspect Father John knows the cases of which I am thinking.

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Fr. John Morris] #404442
03/23/14 02:23 PM
03/23/14 02:23 PM
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,157
Washington, PA
Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
Moderator
Fr. Deacon Lance  Offline
Moderator
Member

Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,157
Washington, PA
Originally Posted by Fr. John Morris
Eastern Orthodox do not want Priests to marry either. A married man can be ordained to the Priesthood, but a Priest cannot get married. I think that the characterization that a celibate Roman Catholic Priest is more dedicated to his vocation than a married Eastern Orthodox Priest is very unfair. I am on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I have gotten out of bed many times in the middle of the night to minister to a family who has just lost a loved one. More often than not, I have sacrificed the welfare, and happiness of my wife and children to minister to my flock.

Archpriest John W. Morris


Don't say that too loudly because that will also be used as a reason for no married presbyterate.

I would also say nobody can be 24/7. That is a recipe for burnout and divorce. The laity have got to be made to realize this.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #404468
03/24/14 11:10 AM
03/24/14 11:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 576
.
B
bergschlawiner Offline
Member
bergschlawiner  Offline
Member
B

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 576
.
It is so sad when a priest's wife passes away leaving children to raise. Doesn't leave much of nan option for a priest except to leave the priesthood and marry for the sake of raising a family which I see is being done in many Eastern European countries where the remarried priest is allowed to move someplace far away and continue his priesthood. Allowing a widowed priest to remarry under these circumstances is neither immoral nor sinful.

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2019 (Forum 1998-2019). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1
(Release build 20190129)
PHP: 7.1.32 Page Time: 0.026s Queries: 15 (0.005s) Memory: 2.6375 MB (Peak: 2.7497 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2019-09-18 00:54:37 UTC