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Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Tomassus] #404188 03/15/14 03:08 PM
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Sean Forristal Offline
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Peter J:

By out of left-field what do you mean?

Your unworthy brother in Christ;
Sean Forristal

P.S. Thank you for your kindness. I will not be bullied by my fellow Christians or Catholics into silence.

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Peter J] #404198 03/15/14 06:30 PM
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Roman refugee Offline
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Peter J.

You are welcome. It was, of course from the snake pit of fundamentalist Catholic bloggers that I even got the idea. Embittered sedevacantists, unquestioning followers of the Pope's every comment as "gospel", this one's a heretic, this one's a schismatic--such disarray and so little charity or humility. There is even a guy who says the last "real" pope was in 1134AD! This forum is so refreshing by comparison.

The wisdom of the "economy" of St. Basil is badly needed.

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Sean Forristal] #404199 03/15/14 06:34 PM
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Sean Forristal:

Not to be a wise guy, but every age thinks it is living the end times. Remember what Jesus said in Mathew 24 about the signs of the end--we're not there yet.

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Sean Forristal] #404200 03/15/14 06:40 PM
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To Sean,


Peter J and All:



"In my view, I believe much of what is going on in Christ's Church and in society is of demonic origin, for the devil wishes to destroy them both."

Certainly agree with that. Diabolical disorientation.

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Tomassus] #404205 03/15/14 09:12 PM
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Pasisozi Offline
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\\There is even a guy who says the last "real" pope was in 1134AD!\\

I think I've heard of him. There's one who says that every pope after Pius IX was an anti-pope, including Pius X and XII.

As a writer for NCReg said, this way lies not only apostasy, but delusion.

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Pasisozi] #404214 03/16/14 08:09 AM
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Peter J Offline
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Originally Posted by Pasisozi
\\There is even a guy who says the last "real" pope was in 1134AD!\\

I think I've heard of him.


SSPI?

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Tomassus] #404221 03/16/14 04:02 PM
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1131 was AFTER St. Pius I.

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Pasisozi] #404231 03/16/14 10:27 PM
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It was 11-something. I left the website without wanting to read much more. It is stjohnthebaptist, whatever. It reads like the minutes of the Spanish Inquisition.

But the guy takes the trouble then to condemn as heretics everyone from more modern times. Not consistent. If all are heretics since the 12th Century, why bother about them?

A layman can get caught up in this legalism and name calling because they don't understand the subtleties, for instance, a Mass said by a publicly self sworn sedevacantist can be valid, but is not licit. Where do you go from there?

The Church has to be a visible community of believers. These guys obsessed with legalism end up denying or making impossible the 4 marks of the Church: one, holy, catholic, apostolic. They think that they are the only true Christians left in the world, not even aware of their great faults like lack of humility and charity and faith too, for that matter, and that they are leading more "simple" souls into confusion. Thence leads the slippery slope of private judgement.

Something I read once I never forgot that made a big difference in my own faith. It was to the effect that one must submit one's intellect to the authentic teachings. Once that is done, true faith usually follows. Not the other way around. Faith is above reason, not in opposition to it. This doesn't mean that we must not still be "wise as serpents," especially these days.

Maybe just for fun I'll look up what happened after Pius I. But not on THAT website! Very depressing.

Last edited by Roman refugee; 03/16/14 10:37 PM.
Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Roman refugee] #404239 03/17/14 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Roman refugee
It was 11-something. I left the website without wanting to read much more. It is stjohnthebaptist, whatever. It reads like the minutes of the Spanish Inquisition.

But the guy takes the trouble then to condemn as heretics everyone from more modern times. Not consistent. If all are heretics since the 12th Century, why bother about them?

A layman can get caught up in this legalism and name calling because they don't understand the subtleties, for instance, a Mass said by a publicly self sworn sedevacantist can be valid, but is not licit. Where do you go from there?

The Church has to be a visible community of believers. These guys obsessed with legalism end up denying or making impossible the 4 marks of the Church: one, holy, catholic, apostolic. They think that they are the only true Christians left in the world, not even aware of their great faults like lack of humility and charity and faith too, for that matter, and that they are leading more "simple" souls into confusion. Thence leads the slippery slope of private judgement.

Something I read once I never forgot that made a big difference in my own faith. It was to the effect that one must submit one's intellect to the authentic teachings. Once that is done, true faith usually follows. Not the other way around. Faith is above reason, not in opposition to it. This doesn't mean that we must not still be "wise as serpents," especially these days.

Maybe just for fun I'll look up what happened after Pius I. But not on THAT website! Very depressing.


Interesting and perceptive thoughts on the day Eastern Christians, Catholic and Orthodox, commemorate St. Gregory Palamas.

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: DMD] #404428 03/22/14 10:20 PM
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Although I like and respect Fr. John Whiteford, I must disagree with him. I may be sheltered as an Antiochian, but I know of no one in authority in the Eastern Orthodox Church who advocates approval of same sex marriage or of homosexuality. Certainly our Antiochian Bishops and my brother Antiochian Orthodox Priests are firm on this issue.

Archpriest John W. Morris

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Fr. John Morris] #404493 03/24/14 07:20 PM
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The young fogey Offline
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Originally Posted by Fr. John Morris
Although I like and respect Fr. John Whiteford, I must disagree with him. I may be sheltered as an Antiochian, but I know of no one in authority in the Eastern Orthodox Church who advocates approval of same sex marriage or of homosexuality. Certainly our Antiochian Bishops and my brother Antiochian Orthodox Priests are firm on this issue.

Archpriest John W. Morris


Didn't an Orthodox cleric in liberal Finland favor it? Also, there's retired OCA Archbishop Lazar (Puhalo). You're right that it's a fringe movement, if it can be called a movement, in the Orthodox Church: ethnic churches that run themselves through tradition so they're not interested in homosexualism.

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Tomassus] #404666 03/30/14 11:03 AM
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I like brother DMD's Comment#2 in this thread.

But I actually like the article, if not for its misrepresentations of Holy Orthodoxy.

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Roman refugee] #404668 03/30/14 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Roman refugee
However, it would only be a continuation of the weakening of papal authority perpetrated by John Paul II and nothing new. And, it probably wouldn't fly, given even the weakened Dogmatic Constitution on the Church given at Vatican II. Were I a conspiracy theorist, I might smell an agenda here to destroy the papacy and install goddess democracy.

I disagree with this assessment of Vatican 2's teaching on Collegiality. Collegiality is the patristic and biblical way. It is not about the Pope alone, no matter how good of a shepherd he might be.

I think the author of the article is thinking of what I've often called the "Low Petrine view" in his assessment of Orthodoxy, wherein the head bishop has no real authority outside of his own diocese. I think he does not consider that there is also the "High Petrine" view within Orthodoxy, which has a greater respect for the authority of the head bishop, and this is what collegiality is about. The High Petrine praxis can be observed particularly in the Oriental Orthodox Churches and the Russian Orthodox Church. It is not about depriving the head bishop of his proper authority, but about placing him in the proper context of the divinely-instituted College. Just as the head bishop can act as a bulwark for the possible excesses of other bishops, so can his brother bishops act as a bulwark for the possible excesses of the head bishop.

Also, could you link to the statement of HH's statement about giving episcopal conferences more "doctrinal authority?" I suspect you might be misinterpreting or exaggerating the relevance of it. Not even in Holy Orthodoxy is any Church considered to be completely independent on matters of doctrine.

Blessings

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Tomassus] #404673 03/30/14 12:58 PM
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\\Didn't an Orthodox cleric in liberal Finland favor it? Also, there's retired OCA Archbishop Lazar (Puhalo). You're right that it's a fringe movement, if it can be called a movement, in the Orthodox Church: ethnic churches that run themselves through tradition so they're not interested in homosexualism.\\

When did Abp. Lazar say such a thing?

Re: What Not to Learn from Eastern Orthodoxy [Re: Pasisozi] #404675 03/30/14 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Pasisozi
\\Didn't an Orthodox cleric in liberal Finland favor it? Also, there's retired OCA Archbishop Lazar (Puhalo). You're right that it's a fringe movement, if it can be called a movement, in the Orthodox Church: ethnic churches that run themselves through tradition so they're not interested in homosexualism.\\

When did Abp. Lazar say such a thing?

Doesn't he have a youtube channel?

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