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Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Fr. John Morris] #404481 03/24/14 03:11 PM
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Epiphanius Offline
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Originally Posted by Fr. John Morris
... I can also understand what they are going through, because as a married man with children, I have had similar experiences. Finally as a married man with children, I am one of the people, not a separate cast.

A very compelling argument, indeed!

Ideally, I think, we should have both. A friendly rivalry between the two would not be a bad thing. (Of course, I'm talking here about a godly rivalry--vying to see who can better serve God's kingdom--a worldly rivalry would be a nightmare!)

Still, even as a deacon, I often feel the sentiments expressed by St. Paul in 1Cor. 7:32-33:
Quote
But I desire to have you to be free from cares. He who is unmarried is concerned for the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; but he who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife.

blush


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: bergschlawiner] #404498 03/25/14 01:28 AM
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Xristoforos Offline
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Better to be a viewed as a "bad priest by the SOME but not all of the lay people" than to be viewed as a bad father by some or all of your family".

I think that successful priests figure out how to make excuses and balance their time without upsetting too many people.

The best thing I can say is that if you have a smaller congregation this is easier. I still think latin rite Roman Catholic Churches tend to be bigger than the Byzantine rite ones.

Everything is possible if handled well.
A skilled bishop does not demand too much of a priest...
Perhaps he sends him an assistant priest or deacons.
At least antiochians have deacons, the greek archdiocese does not, which is strange. I wonder how many of our churches had stopped having deacons and than revived them? or is this only a latin phenenenon. (outside of seminarians and monaseries I mean, parish deacons.)

For his grace Metropolitan Philip Saliba who has departed us.. I think he understood that. May his successor continue carrying on his legacy...

Fr. John Morris, do many of your brother priests feel overworked? What solutions exist to this? Is it an inevitable cross to carry to assist Our Lord tend his flock?

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Epiphanius] #404505 03/25/14 09:49 AM
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Economos Roman V. Russo Offline
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This passage doesn't refer to the clergy but to the baptized!

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Xristoforos] #404531 03/26/14 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Xristoforos
I still think latin rite Roman Catholic Churches tend to be bigger than the Byzantine rite ones.

Do you mean in the USA or in general?

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Peter J] #404532 03/26/14 07:48 AM
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Bigger and impersonal.
Seems so many large Latin Rite churches lack a strong sense of community. Too many attend Mass because they have to then disappear immediately after Mass [or immediately after Communion] until next Saturday evening or Sunday morning.
Give me a small Greek Catholic or Byzantine Catholic parish any day!

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #404616 03/28/14 11:15 AM
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Not all Latin Rite parishes are like this. Mine is vibrant with lots of ministries, youth and young adult groups, fish frys during Lent, rosaries and miraculous medal novenas, potluck suppers and picnics, etc. Folks don't bolt for the door after receiving communion most mornings. Our average mass attendance at 8:15 mass (we also have a 12:10 mass every day during Lent) is between thirty to fifty attendees. I certainly think we are not alone in this regard. I also attend an equally lovely and vibrant Maronite parish about a mile from my Latin Rite parish at least once a week or two. It is a wonderful thing indeed to have both.

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Xristoforos] #404625 03/28/14 10:49 PM
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I was not complaining. I was objecting to the idea that a celibate Priest is more dedicated to his ministry than a married Eastern Orthodox Priest. I am not complaining about fulfilling my pastoral duties, but object to the idea that I am less capable of ministering to my people than a celibate.

Archpriest John W. Morris

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Xristoforos] #404626 03/28/14 10:52 PM
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I was not complaining. I was objecting to the idea that a celibate Priest is more dedicated to his ministry than a married Eastern Orthodox Priest. I am not complaining about fulfilling my pastoral duties, but object to the idea that I am less capable of ministering to my people than a celibate.

Archpriest John W. Morris

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Xristoforos] #404628 03/28/14 10:55 PM
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What makes you think that the Greek Archdiocese does not have deacons. Of course, it and every other Eastern Orthodox Church has deacons. A man must be a deacon before he can be ordained to the priesthood. I do not know how many deacons they have in parishes. I am sure that they have some.

Fr. John W. Morris

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Fr. John Morris] #404633 03/29/14 07:50 AM
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In doing some study on patristics, I get the idea that this idea of the unmarried state somehow being more holy than the married state comes from St. Augustine and his ruminations on original sin. In knowing sketchy details of his life, I would say that very much like Luther, his sins clouded his judgment and made him super-impose certain ideas about sin, God, holiness, and judgment upon God's view of the world.

I may be wrong, of course, but it seems that Augustine is the jump off point in the West for this and other errors

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #404638 03/29/14 09:15 AM
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@Irish Ruthenian: the objective superiority of the celibate state is well-acknowledged in the East; it's not really controversial at all for the Eastern fathers. Check out St. John Chrysostom or the Cappadocian fathers on the subject; they make St. Augustine sound mild by comparison. Of course, as a married man, I never really understood why it was hard for other married men to acknowledge that although marriage is a holy thing, consecrated celibacy constitutes a higher level of asceticism. Not sure what you mean about the alleged "other errors" in Augustine . . .

@Fr John Morris: Evloyite pater! I agree that it would be absurd to say that married priests are less capable of fulfilling pastoral duties. This argument, although often found among folks defending the mandatory celibacy of the Latin priesthood, is really not the reason why celibacy was ever required for priests. Pius XII's encyclical on the subject gives a pretty good overview of the issue (with praise for Eastern customs as well).

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #404639 03/29/14 10:24 AM
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How can celibacy, as honorable a sacrifice it is, compare to marriage which is a sacrament?


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #404640 03/29/14 10:27 AM
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The highest state in life is the state to which God has actually called you.

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #404643 03/29/14 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
How can celibacy, as honorable a sacrifice it is, compare to marriage which is a sacrament?


Father Lance, I find it hard to believe that St. Paul and the entire Patristic tradition are wrong on this.

Re: "Why I Don't Want Priests to Marry"-UGH!!! [Re: Anna] #404644 03/29/14 02:26 PM
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Just to provide something specific here, remember that St. John Chrysostom argued that celibacy surpasses marriage as heaven surpasses earth, and that the great ascetics who were called to practice it were equal to the angels.

Of course not everyone is called to such heights. But let's not get confused about the hierarchy of vocations.

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