www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall When Brothers dwell together in Unity

The strident voices of fear and histrionic encourage enmity do not define Orthodoxy. They are the bullies of the faith and all need to remember that such voices are found in all faiths as the devil tempts us all.

I prefer this:

" Religious fault lines underlie Ukraine-Russia tensions


Philadelphia Ukrainian Archbishop Stefan Soroka speaks at the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Philadelphia, site of a March 16 prayer service for peace in Ukraine where he was joined by Archbishop Charles Chaput and Archbishop Antony, Metropolitan of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the United States. (Courtesy of The Way/Ukrainian Archeparchy of Philadelphia)

Three archbishops — Roman Catholic, Ukrainian Catholic and Ukrainian Orthodox — joined together in prayers for peace at Philadelphia’s Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception on Sunday, March 16.

This was not unusual, at least for the United States, according to Archbishop Stefan Soroka, who is Metropolitan Archbishop of the Archeparchy (Archdiocese) of Philadelphia and the leader of Ukrainian Catholics in the United States.

..He was joined that day by Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, archbishop of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Philadelphia and by Archbishop Antony, Metropolitan of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the United States as well as a congregation of 500 mostly Ukrainian-Americans. ...

“We offer in America something that I know they wonder about (in Ukraine),” Archbishop Soroka said in a March 24 interview with CatholicPhilly.com. “Our Ukrainian Catholic Church and our Ukrainian Orthodox Church here in America have been meeting for years. We meet every year for two or three days to discuss issues of concern. Our focus is not trying to resolve our differences but to understand one another. The more we come together, the more we realize how little difference there really is.

“When we meet, the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church in Ukraine are champing at the bit for our press release even before it is out. We are an example to them how different churches can come together.” http://catholicphilly.com/2014/03/n...-lines-underlie-ukraine-russia-tensions/

I know Metropolitan Antony, he is a good man. "Na Mnohaja Lita, Vladyko! Axios!"

As long as my Faith has leaders like Metropolitan Antony, my Patriarch,Bartholomew and in the mold of my departed hierarch and friend, Met. Nicholas, I will not give into the despair offered by other voices.

Lord, have mercy.

I am haunted by the words of the American Civil War president Abraham Lincoln's timeless warning in his first inaugural as he rightly foresaw the blood spilled when passion overcomes reason. Russians and Ukrainians of good will, and there are yet many, should take heed....

" I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."

I am not quoting Lincoln to support any sort of union between countries here, but rather in a cautionary and metaphorical sense keeping in mind the historic religious and cultural heritage of both peoples.

On the other hand:


Only by recognizing and respecting the independence of the United States--a process that required the better part of a century--were the United States and the United Kingdom able for form that mystical bond that is our special relationship.

Russia, the Soviet Union, and Russia once more, has through its actions against the Ukrainian people and nation, made political union not only impossible but repellent; given time for old wounds to heal, and for mutual respect to be demonstrated and earned, in the future Russia and Ukraine might have the kind of relationship that exists between the U.S. and the UK. But that time is not now.

I honestly don't believe there will be an invasion of Ukraine by the Kremlin.

The world has gone to Ukraine's side, for one, even though Russia expresses her disdain for it all.

Mr. Putin is also in a vulnerable position here. His own oligarchs will go along for the ride but will get off at the stop that says, "Our material interests." And Mr. Putin knows it.

He can ill afford to have his oligarchs angry with him or else wondering if they should change presidents and he doesn't want Russia's economy to hurt more than it is already.

An all out war of invasion will prove ... what? How will it benefit Russia?

Ultimately, how will Russia having to economically support and supply Crimea (with water and other things) help her situation?

The way the world (including China that abstained from voting with Russia at the UN - something that doesn't happen every day) has gone against it is something no one in the Kremlin, least of all Mr. Putin, calculated on.

Sabre-rattling aside, Ukraine's going over to the EU is a done deal.

The question is - when will Russia join the EU?

Let's also remember that there many Russians in Ukraine and in Russia who support Ukraine, Russians in whom there is not the least hint of the old imperialistic impulse.

Armenians who are citizens of Ukraine stood at the Maydan, Armenians were shot down by Yanukovych's snipers (Mr. Putin knows Yanukovych really screwed up by that action and he is said to have told him that his political career is over). Tatars and others also joined in.

Alex

In my opinion, I think that is unfortunate. Time will show that it is a big mistake.



Uh....my guess is.....never.

Neither do I, because Russia does not possess the military power to do so.

While, I believe Ukraine needs to be free of Russian imperialism, why would any one want to join the failed nightmare that is the European Union?


Russia doesn't need the EU. The EU will, hopefully, be gone in a few years.

EU -- be careful what you wish for. If Ukraine wants to join, fine. She will have to accept being treated like the poor man of Europe, like the PIIG countries or worse. Germany will have to foot the bill, since it is the richest and largest country in the Union. I hope Germans are comfortable with that.

Dear Recluse,

Time will indeed tell.

And I think you are right about Russia. Russia is not a European country, even though it has borrowed heavily from European culture etc. over the years.

But neither can Russia afford to be in isolation to Europe or the rest of the world.

We are all interdependent on one another across a wide spectrum of things.

Alex

Dear Nelson,

I think Ukraine would love to be like Poland economically!

So would places like Detroit . . .

Alex

Dear Mark,

Gruss Gott!

Alex

Yes, but most Western European nations would be better off without the EU ( England and Germany come to mind). Spain and Greece are economic disasters and the other countries are having to ball them out.

Poland should be weary. The better off they get economically the more of their GDP will go to the EU to bail out the next Greece.

The EU promotes anti-Christian values and forces member states to bid by them in the name of "human rights."

The super-state idea of a united Europe will never work out. The peoples of Europe will want their national sovereignty back.

Dear Nelson,

Certainly, there is a very strong case for national independence rather than bigger, "united" states.

This is the nationalism that is making a strong comeback and which Russia likes to call "fascism." It is not that at all, but the desire for the smaller state based along a number of continua.

Ukraine wants to be part of Europe in the first instance. It is because they are Europeans (however it is organized).

The Kyivan Orthodox Church was heavily influenced by European values when that of Muscovy was not - indeed the Muscovites were rather afraid of European civilization and education. In the 17th century, most of the bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church were . . . Ukrainian for that reason.

The Orthodoxy of Kyiv is not that of Moscow - they are culturally far apart in fact.

The only arguments in favour of the opposite view are those of the hegemon in the picture which is Moscow.

And no one is forced to do immoral acts, even though states allow them.

The individual is solely responsible for the morality or immorality of his or her actions in whatever cultural milieu happens to be the social context.

Alex

May it be so!

Great post, Nelson! I concur!