The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
AdrianFarrell, JStadnik, Tkoty, RomanovvII, squirrelpoose
5618 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (1 invisible), 174 guests, and 99 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Byzantine Nebraska
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,791
Posts412,228
Members5,618
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Robert Horvath] #405393 04/30/14 11:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 576
B
bergschlawiner Offline
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 576
Not Byzantine but we have here locally a small private non-denominational chapel at a ski area which has a Sunday service for local residents using the Roman Catholic missal conducted by a RC layman who studied for the priesthood but instead got married. He officiates behind the altar in civilian clothing, the eucharistic prayers are omitted, and a form of "communion" is distributed with unconsecrated hosts and wine. Apparently he has some support from the Archdiocese. This service goes beyond a "readers" service but disturbs me to see a symbolic communion as part of the service.

Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Economos Roman V. Russo] #405394 04/30/14 03:04 PM
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,162
Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,162
Originally Posted by Ot'ets Nastoiatel'
Now, I know that laymen burn incense in their cell-rule prayer, but to do offer incense publicly during the Church's Liturgical Prayer . . . who blesses the incense? Similarly, one puts on no vestment since there is no one present to bless it.

Our Lord I would guess. If one is conducting a public service I would assume that the Deacon, Reader, or layperson has the bishop's blessing to do so. For Typica with Communion distributed by a deacon in the Metropolia of Pittsburgh the deacon vests and incenses this is true for the Antiochian Orthodox as well.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #405395 04/30/14 10:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Paul B Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by Ot'ets Nastoiatel'
Now, I know that laymen burn incense in their cell-rule prayer, but to do offer incense publicly during the Church's Liturgical Prayer . . . who blesses the incense? Similarly, one puts on no vestment since there is no one present to bless it.

Our Lord I would guess. If one is conducting a public service I would assume that the Deacon, Reader, or layperson has the bishop's blessing to do so. For Typica with Communion distributed by a deacon in the Metropolia of Pittsburgh the deacon vests and incenses this is true for the Antiochian Orthodox as well.


Addressing the question of a deacon vesting without a priest present, please allow me to put it in this context -- Deacons in the Pittsburgh Metropolia are authorized, when necessary, to celebrate Typika. Priests are also permitted to administer Chrismation through the authorization of a (Arch)Bishop.

A priest doesn't ask permission to Chrismate on every occasion, so why should a Deacon per prohibited from vesting?Certainly, if a priest is present a deacon should....MUST ask for the priest blessing. But let's not confuse the issue. By the same logic, I would think, if a bishop is present, the priest should not Christmate without the bishop's blessing.

Thoughts? Comments?

Last edited by Paul B; 04/30/14 10:32 PM. Reason: punctuation
Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Robert Horvath] #405396 05/01/14 09:04 AM
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,162
Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,162
The difference here is in Eastern Canon Law a priest is an ordinary minister of chrismation, unlike Latin Canon Law where a priest is an extraordinary minister of confirmation in most cases.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #405397 05/01/14 10:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Paul B Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
The difference here is in Eastern Canon Law a priest is an ordinary minister of chrismation, unlike Latin Canon Law where a priest is an extraordinary minister of confirmation in most cases.


Understood. May example wasn't the best, but the point is that a deacon is assigned (whether temporary or permanent) by the bishop, not the pastor...unlike a lay reader. So that in the absence of a priest he may, at the discretion of the bishop, vest for services proper to a deacon in the priest's absence.

Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Robert Horvath] #405399 05/01/14 11:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 88
P
Pasisozi Offline
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 88
A Reader has his own vesture that differs from a Deacon's, PaulB.

However, Deacons, Subdeacons, and Readers may not vest without the blessing of the Celebrant.

This is why in the OCA Diocese of Alaska, some local readers are publicly blessed by the Bishop to wear the Sticharion when they lead the Divine Office and Typica.

Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Pasisozi] #405400 05/01/14 03:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Paul B Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Originally Posted by Pasisozi
A Reader has his own vesture that differs from a Deacon's, PaulB.

However, Deacons, Subdeacons, and Readers may not vest without the blessing of the Celebrant.

This is why in the OCA Diocese of Alaska, some local readers are publicly blessed by the Bishop to wear the Sticharion when they lead the Divine Office and Typica.


"Publicly blessed" ....exactly what is that and how is it different from what our Archbishop has authorized, which is vesting and incensing when celebrating the Typika?

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Alice, Father Deacon Ed, theophan 

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3