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Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Robert Horvath] #405393
04/30/14 11:37 AM
04/30/14 11:37 AM
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bergschlawiner Offline
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Not Byzantine but we have here locally a small private non-denominational chapel at a ski area which has a Sunday service for local residents using the Roman Catholic missal conducted by a RC layman who studied for the priesthood but instead got married. He officiates behind the altar in civilian clothing, the eucharistic prayers are omitted, and a form of "communion" is distributed with unconsecrated hosts and wine. Apparently he has some support from the Archdiocese. This service goes beyond a "readers" service but disturbs me to see a symbolic communion as part of the service.

Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Economos Roman V. Russo] #405394
04/30/14 03:04 PM
04/30/14 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ot'ets Nastoiatel'
Now, I know that laymen burn incense in their cell-rule prayer, but to do offer incense publicly during the Church's Liturgical Prayer . . . who blesses the incense? Similarly, one puts on no vestment since there is no one present to bless it.

Our Lord I would guess. If one is conducting a public service I would assume that the Deacon, Reader, or layperson has the bishop's blessing to do so. For Typica with Communion distributed by a deacon in the Metropolia of Pittsburgh the deacon vests and incenses this is true for the Antiochian Orthodox as well.


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Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #405395
04/30/14 10:31 PM
04/30/14 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by Ot'ets Nastoiatel'
Now, I know that laymen burn incense in their cell-rule prayer, but to do offer incense publicly during the Church's Liturgical Prayer . . . who blesses the incense? Similarly, one puts on no vestment since there is no one present to bless it.

Our Lord I would guess. If one is conducting a public service I would assume that the Deacon, Reader, or layperson has the bishop's blessing to do so. For Typica with Communion distributed by a deacon in the Metropolia of Pittsburgh the deacon vests and incenses this is true for the Antiochian Orthodox as well.


Addressing the question of a deacon vesting without a priest present, please allow me to put it in this context -- Deacons in the Pittsburgh Metropolia are authorized, when necessary, to celebrate Typika. Priests are also permitted to administer Chrismation through the authorization of a (Arch)Bishop.

A priest doesn't ask permission to Chrismate on every occasion, so why should a Deacon per prohibited from vesting?Certainly, if a priest is present a deacon should....MUST ask for the priest blessing. But let's not confuse the issue. By the same logic, I would think, if a bishop is present, the priest should not Christmate without the bishop's blessing.

Thoughts? Comments?

Last edited by Paul B; 04/30/14 10:32 PM. Reason: punctuation
Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Robert Horvath] #405396
05/01/14 09:04 AM
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The difference here is in Eastern Canon Law a priest is an ordinary minister of chrismation, unlike Latin Canon Law where a priest is an extraordinary minister of confirmation in most cases.


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Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #405397
05/01/14 10:06 AM
05/01/14 10:06 AM
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Paul B Offline
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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
The difference here is in Eastern Canon Law a priest is an ordinary minister of chrismation, unlike Latin Canon Law where a priest is an extraordinary minister of confirmation in most cases.


Understood. May example wasn't the best, but the point is that a deacon is assigned (whether temporary or permanent) by the bishop, not the pastor...unlike a lay reader. So that in the absence of a priest he may, at the discretion of the bishop, vest for services proper to a deacon in the priest's absence.

Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Robert Horvath] #405399
05/01/14 11:21 AM
05/01/14 11:21 AM
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A Reader has his own vesture that differs from a Deacon's, PaulB.

However, Deacons, Subdeacons, and Readers may not vest without the blessing of the Celebrant.

This is why in the OCA Diocese of Alaska, some local readers are publicly blessed by the Bishop to wear the Sticharion when they lead the Divine Office and Typica.

Re: Byzantine Reader's Service [Re: Pasisozi] #405400
05/01/14 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Pasisozi
A Reader has his own vesture that differs from a Deacon's, PaulB.

However, Deacons, Subdeacons, and Readers may not vest without the blessing of the Celebrant.

This is why in the OCA Diocese of Alaska, some local readers are publicly blessed by the Bishop to wear the Sticharion when they lead the Divine Office and Typica.


"Publicly blessed" ....exactly what is that and how is it different from what our Archbishop has authorized, which is vesting and incensing when celebrating the Typika?

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