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Married Priesthood in US ? #405442
05/04/14 05:05 PM
05/04/14 05:05 PM
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Little Green Coat Offline OP
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Is it true Pope Francis Has lifted the ban on married priests in the US for Eastern Catholics?????

Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: Little Green Coat] #405443
05/04/14 06:16 PM
05/04/14 06:16 PM
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Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
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That is my understanding.


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Married Priesthood in US ? #405448
05/04/14 11:12 PM
05/04/14 11:12 PM
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Talon Offline
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At present, it's my understanding that only the Byzantine and now Maronite Churches in the U.S. are allowed to ordain married men after seeking permission in each case from Rome to do so.

I'm not sure why the other eastern Churches are not in the mix yet, but I'm sure that day will come, as will the day when no permission is needed from Rome of any kind. That was the original aim several years ago when the ban on ordaining married men was lifted (for the Byzantine Church to be able to do so without restriction), but apparently too many western "powers that be" made too much of a stink over it. so it sounds like somebody in Rome sort of rolled their eyes and said, "Ok, if it makes you feel better, they have to get permission every time first" while pulling out a rubber stamp, if you catch my drift.

Once the western Church gets more acclimated to eastern realities, I'm confident the light of the East will be allowed to shine without medium.

Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: Talon] #405467
05/05/14 05:08 PM
05/05/14 05:08 PM
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I have been told by a reliable authority that at the last session of Eastern Catholic hierarchs in Rome, the Holy Father informed the hierarchs that they could ordain married men as they saw fit.


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Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: Little Green Coat] #405469
05/05/14 07:50 PM
05/05/14 07:50 PM
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Talon Offline
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That would be great if it's true. Given how frequently Francis is misquoted these days, occasionally by his own fault, I can't help but wonder...

Are you still in touch with this reliable authority, Fr. Deacon? I'm sure Francis probably did say something to this effect. My only question would be was it official, or said off the cuff, as in "Ya know, as far as I'm concerned..."?

Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: Little Green Coat] #405470
05/05/14 07:55 PM
05/05/14 07:55 PM
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Yes. I think it was official in that he told the hierarchs. I don't think there will be motu proprio as another mentioned, nor do I think there will be any fanfare or headline announcement.


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Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: Little Green Coat] #405472
05/05/14 08:05 PM
05/05/14 08:05 PM
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Talon Offline
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Sorry, not to "nitpick", but my doubt is not whether what he said was said in front of the hierarchs or not. My question is whether he said, in an official capacity, "You are now allowed to ordained married men at will", or whether his comments were more in passing than that.

I can fathom the group talking over various issues and bringing this topic up at some point and having Francis say casually, "You know, you guys should really be able to do that at will...", strictly as a matter of opinion, which would not be binding. Know what I mean?

Whatever the case, whenever it happens - whether it has already or not - I have no doubt it will be done very quietly.

The fun part is going to be once a sufficient number of westerns realize what's happening and start to question mandatory celibacy in the West. Not looking forward to the ugly fight that's going to ensue on that one... frown

Last edited by Talon; 05/05/14 08:07 PM.
Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: Little Green Coat] #405473
05/05/14 08:53 PM
05/05/14 08:53 PM
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This was in response to a request by the hierarchs, so no, not a passing comment. But the Latin Church's issues explain the lack of publicity.


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Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: Little Green Coat] #405504
05/07/14 09:50 AM
05/07/14 09:50 AM
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Does it really matter? The Holy See never had the authority to suppress the married priesthood of the Eastern Churches in the first place. As the ban has long been circumvented or ignored, we can take it as having lapsed in fact if not in law--it has passed into desuetude, and Eastern Catholic bishops (always the main impediment to restoration of the married priesthood), should simply run with this. Rome seldom admits error, even while rectifying the error.

Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: StuartK] #405523
05/07/14 05:46 PM
05/07/14 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by StuartK
Does it really matter? The Holy See never had the authority to suppress the married priesthood of the Eastern Churches in the first place.


Not from an Orthodox perspective, perhaps, but from a Catholic one, it did. (Certainly not suggesting it was an acceptable idea, just saying that the authority to do so is there.)

Quote

As the ban has long been circumvented or ignored, we can take it as having lapsed in fact if not in law--it has passed into desuetude,


The ban was never, to my knowledge, ignored. We're talking strictly about the eastern Catholic Churches in the United States, not anywhere else.

Quote

Rome seldom admits error, even while rectifying the error.


Does the East ever forgive error, even when it's confessed? wink

Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: Little Green Coat] #405545
05/08/14 12:11 PM
05/08/14 12:11 PM
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Quote
Not from an Orthodox perspective, perhaps, but from a Catholic one, it did. (Certainly not suggesting it was an acceptable idea, just saying that the authority to do so is there.)


So, even though it was a blatant violation of the terms of the Union of Brest, it was OK, because the Pope said it was OK, which means, in effect, the Pope's word is not worth the paper on which it's printed. No wonder the Orthodox are cynical.

Quote
The ban was never, to my knowledge, ignored.


Of course it was. That's why Ea semper had to be followed by Cum data fuerit. The latter, by the way, banned the "importation" of married priests, and one would have to say that the practice of sending married deacons to Eastern Europe or the Middle East for ordination to the presbyterate completely violated the spirit AND the letter of Cum data fuerit. Only the Ruthenians rolled over and played dead, and then because the two schisms had turned having a celibate clergy into a matter of ecclesial identity ("We were obedient--none of our priests are married").

Quote
Does the East ever forgive error, even when it's confessed?


As Father Robert Taft wrote, "Anamnesis, not amnesia".

Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: StuartK] #405566
05/08/14 08:47 PM
05/08/14 08:47 PM
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Talon Offline
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Originally Posted by StuartK

So, even though it was a blatant violation of the terms of the Union of Brest, it was OK, because the Pope said it was OK


Expound for me? Do you happen to have a link I can visit where it lays this agreement out in plain language?

Of course, I can Google "Union of Brest" on my own, but if the relevant documentation is lengthy, it would be very helpful to have you point me directly to the section in question.

Quote

As Father Robert Taft wrote, "Anamnesis, not amnesia".


Really? Father Taft advocates for the spirit of antichrist? (cf. Matt. 18:21-35) Or am I misunderstanding the application of his words?

Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: Little Green Coat] #405568
05/08/14 09:53 PM
05/08/14 09:53 PM
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StuartK Offline
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As others will tell you, the terms of the Union included a statement that the institution of married priesthood would not be subject to interference or chance--and the entire Treaty of Union says if the Church of Rome violates the terms, the signatories (and by extension, their successors) can consider the Union dissolved.

As to Father Taft, I suggest you read his essay of that title. And as for you, get the hell off your high horse.

Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: Little Green Coat] #405578
05/09/14 01:16 AM
05/09/14 01:16 AM
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Talon Offline
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Pardon?

As for horses, who's on the high one, friend? The one who confesses his humanity and seeks to amend his wrongdoings after the fact, or the one who pretends he does no wrong in the first place, and/or who alleges he has the right to be offended in perpetuity, in contrast with Christ's explicit command to do otherwise?

That's the one and only one weak spot of the East - that ugly, uppity, self-righteous sectarian spirit. But for this, it would nigh be Paradise on Earth...Would that the West had so few Achilles heels.

Last edited by Talon; 05/09/14 01:17 AM.
Re: Married Priesthood in US ? [Re: Little Green Coat] #405579
05/09/14 01:21 AM
05/09/14 01:21 AM
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Lester S Offline
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The Greek Catholics need more Father Wolanskys (sp?). Reading Kuropas's survey of the growth of the Greek Catholic communities is rather inspiring, and heartbreaking, at the same time

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