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Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: Talon] #405357 04/26/14 05:02 PM
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Talon Offline OP
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Ok. So it sounds like the two titles are used interchangeably maybe...Thank you.

Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: Talon] #406018 05/27/14 11:02 PM
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Dcn Anton Offline
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In less formal use, also sometimes just "Father [name]". At least in Russian usage.

Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: Talon] #406021 05/28/14 01:49 AM
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Mark R Offline
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Incidentally, the title "Father" for secular priests comes from Irish custom, which the English adopted after the restoration of the Catholic hierarchy. Other languages have fancy titles for secular priests deriving from their titles for prince or lord (ksiadz, kniaz, don come to mind -- Polish, Slovak, Italian).
(CofE ministers were Mr. or Rev'd Mr. -- I can remember when deacons were formally Rev. Mr.)
Re. whether Latin or Orthodox customs prevail among Eastern Catholics as to indelible marks and such, one thing I remember from Byz. Cat. seminary over 20 yrs ago was when one of us was ordained sudeacon, someone mentioned that if he were to leave the clerical life (he did not, unfortunately he passed away being a priest for about 20 yrs.) he would have to be laicised, so perhaps ECs follow Latin custom. I have not had much witness of EC practice lately, but I suppose they are still finding their way, yet still beholden to the Latin was of doing things since ther are deeply imbedded in Latin infrastructure.

Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: Irish Melkite] #407011 07/21/14 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite



those who head Ordinariates for Eastern Catholics - which are also geographical and personal in jurisdiction. These are NOT Eastern Catholic jurisdictions. They are jurisdictions in which a Latin (who is always a Bishop in modern times and always additionally heads a Latin diocese) exercises personal jurisdiction over only those Eastern Catholics residing in a specific geographic area (usually a country) in which their own Church sui iuris has no hierarch.


I believe that Fr. Francis Vivona here in town is the ordinary for the Greco-Albano-Italo Catholics in the U.S. His parish, though, is attached to the Metropolia Formerly Known as Ruthenian, while the other parish in the US (in NY) is attached to the Latin Diocese, and there are two and a half[1] (?) missions in the US.

hawk

[1] AFAIK, the joint Eastern/Latin mission up the hill, the only known one, is currently defunct.

Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: dochawk] #407012 07/21/14 11:47 PM
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Doc,
Why do you say that the Pittsburgh Metropolia is formerly Ruthenian ? What is it now if not Ruthenian ?
Thanks for your explanation.

Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: Michele] #407016 07/22/14 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Michele
Doc,
Why do you say that the Pittsburgh Metropolia is formerly Ruthenian ? What is it now if not Ruthenian ?
Thanks for your explanation.

Ruthenians in America no longer use the Ruthenian Liturgy. Check out the book written by Father David Petras. He argues that the inherited Ruthenian liturgy is inadequate to serve the needs of present day Ruthenians. So they banned it and did a re-write to create something different. So instead of it being called the "Ruthenian Recension" it's now called the "Petras Resension". At least by the priests in Ohio.

Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: MichaelO] #407034 07/22/14 05:00 PM
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Lester S Offline
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Originally Posted by MichaelO
Originally Posted by Michele
Doc,
Why do you say that the Pittsburgh Metropolia is formerly Ruthenian ? What is it now if not Ruthenian ?
Thanks for your explanation.

Ruthenians in America no longer use the Ruthenian Liturgy. Check out the book written by Father David Petras. He argues that the inherited Ruthenian liturgy is inadequate to serve the needs of present day Ruthenians. So they banned it and did a re-write to create something different. So instead of it being called the "Ruthenian Recension" it's now called the "Petras Resension". At least by the priests in Ohio.


Interesting take. I'll say, "that is all."

Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: Lester S] #407039 07/22/14 11:26 PM
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Aye yia yia

Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: Talon] #407097 07/25/14 02:13 AM
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Irish Melkite Offline
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Originally Posted by dochawk
Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
those who head Ordinariates for Eastern Catholics - which are also geographical and personal in jurisdiction. These are NOT Eastern Catholic jurisdictions. They are jurisdictions in which a Latin (who is always a Bishop in modern times and always additionally heads a Latin diocese) exercises personal jurisdiction over only those Eastern Catholics residing in a specific geographic area (usually a country) in which their own Church sui iuris has no hierarch.


I believe that Fr. Francis Vivona here in town is the ordinary for the Greco-Albano-Italo Catholics in the U.S. His parish, though, is attached to the Metropolia Formerly Known as Ruthenian, while the other parish in the US (in NY) is attached to the Latin Diocese, and there are two and a half[1] (?) missions in the US.

[1] AFAIK, the joint Eastern/Latin mission up the hill, the only known one, is currently defunct.


Hawk,

While Father Archimandrite Francis is often referred to as such, the reference is informal - there is no designated 'ordinary' for the Italo-Greico-Albanians in the US.

Father is presently one of only three priests in the US who are 'formally' (loose usage) ascribed to the Church. Father Archimandrite Januarius (Izzo) has been confined to a nursing home for the past several years. The third priest, whose name I apologize, I've forgotten, was ordained by Bishop Gerald to the service of the Italo-Grieco-Albanians somewhat recently.

There is, sadly, no parish in NY. Our Lady of Grace Society, headquartered there, is the surviving historical descendent of the original and only US parish of the Church. (The former editor of the Society's newsletter is a member here.) Our Lady of Wisdom in LV is a parish of the Metropolia, established to serve the Italo-Greico-Albanian community there, but, canonically, is a Ruthenian parish.

There are no missions, other than the one in LV which you indicate has closed. Other than Our Lady of Grace, which was a parish and a mission at various times in its history, there has never been another US mission.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: Michele] #407142 07/26/14 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Michele
Doc,
Why do you say that the Pittsburgh Metropolia is formerly Ruthenian ? What is it now if not Ruthenian ?


Not "formerly Ruthenian", but "formerly known as Ruthenian."

We had a couple of name changes for the diocese/eparchy. The current name no longer includes "Ruthenian."

hawk

Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: Irish Melkite] #407143 07/26/14 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite



Father is presently one of only three priests in the US who are 'formally' (loose usage) ascribed to the Church. Father Archimandrite Januarius (Izzo) has been confined to a nursing home for the past several years. The third priest, whose name I apologize, I've forgotten, was ordained by Bishop Gerald to the service of the Italo-Grieco-Albanians somewhat recently.


I believe he was the deacon at OLOW.

Quote


There is, sadly, no parish in NY. Our Lady of Grace Society, headquartered there, is the surviving historical descendent of the original and only US parish of the Church. (The former editor of the Society's newsletter is a member here.) Our Lady of Wisdom in LV is a parish of the Metropolia, established to serve the Italo-Greico-Albanian community there, but, canonically, is a Ruthenian parish.



My understanding is that it has the same standing in our dioces as eastern parishes attached to latin bishops. They mostly work off of our liturgical books (the last time I was there, they were still using the Red ones).

Re: Eastern terminology question [Re: dochawk] #407265 08/01/14 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dochawk


My understanding is that it has the same standing in our dioces as eastern parishes attached to latin bishops.


Yes. That's precisely what I meant by

Quote
Our Lady of Wisdom in LV is a parish of the Metropolia, established to serve the Italo-Greico-Albanian community there, but, canonically, is a Ruthenian parish.


Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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