The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Melkite Catholic, Alexander T., Raphael1999, Adrián Badida, fr nick
5641 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 183 guests, and 209 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Byzantine Nebraska
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,838
Posts412,479
Members5,641
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Orthodoxy and Catholicism #407389 08/07/14 12:49 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,953
D
DMD Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,953
Ironic as one of the preconditions that the negotiators for the rebels led by then Administrator Father Orestes Chornock and others in 1937 took to the Phanar, was an insistence that the method of episcopal selection conferred under the Unions of Brest and Uzhorod - i.e. selection of a candidate Bishop by the eparchial clergy in a properly convensed 'sobor' for presentation to the Holy Synod for ratification - was non-negotiable and was conferred by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and incorporated in the the Tomos and Charter of the ACROD and similar language is found in the agreements between the UOC-Canada and UOC-USA with the Ecumenical throne.

They have honored that committment for the past seventy five years, I might add.

Last edited by Irish Melkite; 08/18/14 01:35 AM.
Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: DMD] #407390 08/07/14 01:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,173
Orthodox Catholic Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,173
Dear DMD,

Ah, the Union of Brest is of some use, after all . . .

It would be good if Rome honoured that arrangement, failing all else!

Alex

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: Latin Catholic] #407397 08/07/14 07:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
Lester S Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
I agree with you both!

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: Lester S] #407398 08/07/14 07:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,173
Orthodox Catholic Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,173
Dear Lester,

You are obviously a person of keen intellect and deep culture!

May I ask if you have a patron saint after whom you are named?

Would you like me to find you one?

Alex

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: Latin Catholic] #407408 08/07/14 10:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
Lester S Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
My patron saint is, technically, Peter - who muttered in presence of the Bishop, during Confirmation. I say muttered, because I had put Paul, at the time of being assigned to choose one :P. I knew it began with a P .. wink

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: Latin Catholic] #407418 08/08/14 07:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,712
T
The young fogey Offline
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,712
So much in church polity is negotiable, a point that Catholic/Orthodox dialogue rightly brings up. Best to the new bishop.

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: The young fogey] #407424 08/08/14 08:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,173
Orthodox Catholic Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,173
Dear Serge,

You know, even after all these years you are still so loveable!

Alex

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #407512 08/11/14 02:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Peter J Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
valid and genuine the dialogue with the Orthodox

I wonder if this is the first time those words have appeared in a thread with the words "St. Josaphat" in its title.

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: Peter J] #407514 08/11/14 03:17 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,953
D
DMD Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,953
Perhaps they will meet at the St. Alexis Toth center... smile

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: Peter J] #407517 08/11/14 09:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,173
Orthodox Catholic Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,173
Dear Peter,

I can't speak for the Moscow Patriarchate of course, wink but bishops of the uncanonical Kyivan Patriarchate actually joined UGCC bishohps last year for a celebration of the life of St Josaphat . . .

Enough said.

Also, Meletius Smotrytsky, Orthodox Archbishop of Polotsk, felt personally responsible for Josaphat's death (there was a lively polemic going on between Orthodox and EC's in those days!).

He later came into union with Rome (in those days, an EC was "Orthodox united to Rome" or a "Greco-Uniate."

Although he wavered in this, he did die as a Greco-Uniate and his Cause for beatification was introduced at Rome - but nothing ever came of it (an icon of him was published however).

FYI.

Alex


Last edited by Orthodox Catholic; 08/11/14 09:31 PM.
Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #407534 08/12/14 09:52 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,953
D
DMD Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,953
Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
Dear Peter,

I can't speak for the Moscow Patriarchate of course, wink but bishops of the uncanonical Kyivan Patriarchate actually joined UGCC bishohps last year for a celebration of the life of St Josaphat . . .

Enough said.

Also, Meletius Smotrytsky, Orthodox Archbishop of Polotsk, felt personally responsible for Josaphat's death (there was a lively polemic going on between Orthodox and EC's in those days!).

He later came into union with Rome (in those days, an EC was "Orthodox united to Rome" or a "Greco-Uniate."

Although he wavered in this, he did die as a Greco-Uniate and his Cause for beatification was introduced at Rome - but nothing ever came of it (an icon of him was published however).

FYI.

Alex



Context is everything...making too many direct analogies to modern issues is problematic. The world was in flux in the late 16th, early 17th centuries...the events of the 15th had hardly settled in or spread entirely across Europe. (The fall of Byzantium, the after impacts of Florence, the printing press, the Reformation, Columbus and so on...)

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: Latin Catholic] #407536 08/12/14 10:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,712
T
The young fogey Offline
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,712
Right, the schism was a gradual estrangement, not "1054 and that was that."

My guess is the KP cozying up to the UGCC is "the enemy of my enemy (the MP) is my friend," part of their nationalism. They want to put the Russian Church out of business in the Ukraine and be the Orthodox church there. (And the U.S. has meddled, favoring the rebel church. Former President Yushchenko, a U.S. plant, is a member.) So they're willing to try to use the UGCC against the Russians. I doubt that, if they had their way, they'd be their friend.

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: The young fogey] #407539 08/12/14 10:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Peter J Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by The young fogey
My guess is the KP cozying up to the UGCC is "the enemy of my enemy (the MP) is my friend," part of their nationalism. They want to put the Russian Church out of business in the Ukraine and be the Orthodox church there. (And the U.S. has meddled, favoring the rebel church. Former President Yushchenko, a U.S. plant, is a member.) So they're willing to try to use the UGCC against the Russians. I doubt that, if they had their way, they'd be their friend.

Generally speaking that's seems a bit (or more) pessimistic; however, I'm just as suspicious as you or Alex vis-a-vis the "Kyivan Patriarchate actually joined UGCC bishohps last year for a celebration of the life of St Josaphat". (Maybe we should revive the phrase "throwing red meat in front of".)

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: Peter J] #407540 08/12/14 10:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,712
T
The young fogey Offline
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,712
With Alex's posts, as Reagan said of the Russians, "Trust, but verify."

Re: Orthodoxy and Catholicism [Re: The young fogey] #407541 08/12/14 10:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Peter J Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by The young fogey
With Alex's posts, as Reagan said of the Russians, "Trust, but verify."

I don't usually quote myself, but it so happens that just this morning I told someone else "may I point out that we would be much better off if more people followed the old advice "Don't believe everything you read." " (I wasn't thinking of Alex of course ... or even the Russians.)

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3