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The High Petrine View #408959 10/18/14 06:20 AM
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mardukm Offline OP
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When I was in CAF, many suggested to me that I write a book about the High Petrine View. I've never found the time. I still don't have the time, but I have a friend here in the Philippines who really wants to write one for me. He's very impressed with the High Petrine view and feels it would be ground-breaking.

From my own pov, every work I've found on the papacy is based on the assumption that the papacy is an institution of absolute power. Even more recent works I've found that propose the collegiality taught by V2 assumes that there is tension between the teaching of V1 and the teaching of V2, and tries to resolve this tension somehow. I'm not aware of any apologetic work that approaches the papacy from the perspective of what I've called the High Petrine View. I personally don't believe there is any tension between V1 and V2, and that V2 was merely a continuation of the intentions of the V1 Fathers.

What do you guys think? My role for the book will be "main adviser" I guess. Do you think the book will be helpful in ecumenical relations?

Blessings

P.S. If it does get written, I'd like to send one to every head bishop in all the Churches.:)

Last edited by mardukm; 10/18/14 06:23 AM.
Re: The High Petrine View [Re: mardukm] #408963 10/18/14 08:23 AM
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Messdiener Offline
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Brother Marduk,

With the caveat that you also include a few words on your other explanations or POVs on the papacy, I would very much support you in this project.

Prayers for you and the author!

Messdiener

Re: The High Petrine View [Re: mardukm] #408966 10/18/14 12:57 PM
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Peter J Offline
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Hi mardukm. I can't say anything expertly (?) on the topic of book publication ... but if this does happen I don't think I'll be very surprised. (I say that not only because of the number of times that I've heard the "High Petrine", "Low Petrine", and "Absolutist Petrine" views mentioned here and elsewhere on the web, but also because I recently happened to hear of a book published that was a collection of the articles on a Catholic blog.)

Re: The High Petrine View [Re: mardukm] #409014 10/21/14 11:30 AM
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Brother markdum, I have always enjoyed your posts on the various views of the Petrine ministry. They are well thought out, cognizant of other viewpoints and criticisms and backed by studious analysis of papal and conciliar documents. I would welcome such a book and would love to buy a copy.

Re: The High Petrine View [Re: mardukm] #409025 10/21/14 08:27 PM
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I think it's a great idea! It's much needed.

Now when you are done with that, get to work on undoing the Stickler/Cholij/Cochini mess!

=)

Re: The High Petrine View [Re: mardukm] #409124 10/27/14 05:40 AM
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Dcn Anton Offline
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Can't wait. Can we pre-order on amazon?

Re: The High Petrine View [Re: mardukm] #409177 10/30/14 02:18 PM
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Recluse Offline
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Originally Posted by mardukm
Do you think the book will be helpful in ecumenical relations?


No.

Re: The High Petrine View [Re: Recluse] #409183 10/30/14 10:15 PM
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Orthodox Catholic Offline
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i agree that such a book will definitely not be a help in ecumenical relations.

But, on the other hand, ecumenical relations have always only been about glad-handing, smiling, compromising and posturing - without any real concrete results after all these years.

There are so many other reasons why such a book by Marduk will excite interest in people - who cares about "ecumenical relations.?"

It reminds me of what St Thomas More said to his wife after she asked him to "stay friends with" King Henry VIII:

"Alice, whatever can be done by smiling, that you may count on me to do . . ."

In either case, smiling helped little.

Alex

Last edited by Orthodox Catholic; 10/30/14 10:16 PM.
Re: The High Petrine View [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #409192 11/01/14 11:30 AM
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Peter J Offline
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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
i agree that such a book will definitely not be a help in ecumenical relations.

I don't think so either I'm afraid. Supporters (I have no doubts that the book would have its share of supporters) would become more convinced of their view, but probably not better able to relate to those who don't share their view. I would also expect some non-Catholic bloggers to portray Catholics, in general, as sharing that view.

Re: The High Petrine View [Re: mardukm] #411597 05/23/15 09:10 PM
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mardukm Offline OP
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I just received rough draft of my friend's book. It is currently a little over 100 pages. I just wanted to give you guys the Table of Contents. Let me know what you think. I'll progressively post other excerpts that might be of interest, once I read the draft.

TABLE OF CONENTS

INTRODUCTION

CHAPTER 1 WHAT REALLY OCCURRED AT VATICAN I
Purpose of Vatican 1
Debates on Primacy
The Relatio of Bishop Zinelli
Debates on Infallibility
The Relatio of Bishop Gasser
Efforts to Continue Vatican 1
Commentary on the invitation of the Orthodox to the Council

CHAPTER 2 MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT PASTOR AETERNUS

CHAPTER 3 ECCLESIOLOGICAL POSITIONS OF THE APOSTOLIC CHURCHES
Basic Ecclesiology of the Apostolic Churches
Similarities/Differences between the High Petrine and Absolutist Petrine Views
Similarities/Differences between the High Petrine and Low Petrine Views
Similarities between the Absolutist and Low Petrine Views

CHAPTER 4 HISTORY OF THE ABSOLUTIST PETRINE VIEW
Historic Ecclesiastical and Secular Reactions to the Papacy
Development of the Catholic Response
Neo-Ultramontanism
Opposition of Vatican I to Neo-Ultramontanism
Maintenance of Absolutist Petrine ideology after Vatican I
Culmination of the Absolutist Petrine ideology - the Schism of the Society of St. Pius X
Modern Absolutist Petrine Propaganda – the Myth of Unilateral Papal Power
The Absolutist Petrine View in the non-Catholic Apostolic Churches

CHAPTER 5 HISTORY OF THE HIGH PETRINE VIEW
What Is Collegiality?
Collegiality at Vatican I
Collegiality after Vatican I
Statements on Collegiality from Vatican 2
Decree on Bishops from Vatican 2
Post-conciliar Affirmations of Collegiality
The Election of Pope St. John Paul II
Orthodox Perspectives

CHAPTER 6 HISTORY OF THE LOW PETRINE VIEW
The Low Petrine View in the Catholic Church
The Low Petrine View in the non-Catholic Apostolic Churches

CHAPTER 7 LESSONS FROM CHURCH HISTORY
(A) Pope St. Clement and the schism at Corinth
(B) Pope St. Anicetus and St. Polycarp
(C) Pope St. Victor and the Easter controversy
(D) Pope St. Stephen and St. Cyprian
(E) The First Ecumenical Council
(F) The Council of Sardica
(G) The Meletian Schism
(H) The Second Ecumenical Council
(I) The Third Ecumenical Council
(J) The Fourth Ecumenical Council
(K) The Fifth Ecumenical Council
(L) The Sixth Ecumenical Council
(M) The Seventh Ecumenical Council
(N) The Photian Controversy
(O) The Schism of 1054
(P) The Avignon schism
(Q) Council of Florence
(R) Council of Trent
(S) First Vatican Council
(T) Enforced Celibacy
(U) Humanae Vitae

APPENDICES
A. The Terms “Universal Bishop,” “Ecumenical Patriarch,” and “Supreme”
B. The Head of the Whole Church
C. Primus Inter Pares and Primacy of Honor
D. Excommunications
E. Jurisdiction: auctoritas or potestas
E. Jurisdiction: “Ordinary,” “Immediate,” and “Proper”
F. Can a Pope Be Deposed?
G. What Makes a Council “Ecumenical?”
H. Bishop Gasser’s Relatio: Issues
I. Q & A for the High Petrine Apologist



Re: The High Petrine View [Re: mardukm] #411647 05/26/15 07:40 PM
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Peter J Offline
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I see Mardukm's prediction from the OP has come true (which is not necessarily to say that there was doubt about it), e.g.

Quote
... the High Petrine and Absolutist Petrine Views ...
the High Petrine and Low Petrine Views ...
the Absolutist and Low Petrine Views ...
THE ABSOLUTIST PETRINE VIEW ...
Absolutist Petrine ...
the Absolutist Petrine ...
Absolutist Petrine The Absolutist Petrine View ...
THE HIGH Petrine VIEW ...
THE LOW Petrine VIEW ...
The Low Petrine View ...
The Low Petrine View in the non-Catholic Apostolic Churches ...
the High Petrine ...

But that having been said, I wonder if there is anything else here to discuss?

Re: The High Petrine View [Re: mardukm] #412059 06/20/15 08:28 PM
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RomCatholic Offline
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Hey Marduk, come join our facebook group Catholic&Orthodox: steps towards a re-united Church. We'd love to have your input.

/groups/323912757639023/

Re: The High Petrine View [Re: mardukm] #412079 06/25/15 08:00 AM
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mardukm Offline OP
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Rom Catholic,

I don't have the time I used to have to engage in such discussions. However, I told my friend who is writing the book. His name is Glenn Guadalupe. Maybe he will join. We don't see 100% eye-to-eye on certain theological matters, but on the matter of ecclesiology, we are on the same page.

Blessings

Re: The High Petrine View [Re: mardukm] #412124 06/29/15 03:10 AM
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RomCatholic Offline
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Yes, it seems he has joined the group.

Hopefully, if you get the time, you'll come join us. You might see some familiar names! lol.


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