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Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #409463 11/18/14 07:44 AM
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desertman Offline
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I wonder if those canons could be part of the reason for the practice of infrequent Communion in some churches. By the way, it's a bit hypocritical for me to be commenting on this topic since I'm a single guy. Therefore I'll shut up now. :-)

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: Thomas the Seeker] #409464 11/18/14 08:02 AM
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DMD Offline
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Originally Posted by Thomas the Seeker
Fr. Patrick Vascuso (GO) lectures on Byzantine Canon Law for the St. Stephens' Course.

He has made a flow chart of permitted vs. non permitted days; generally Tuesdays are "OK", except for Fasting seasons.

If you figure in the fasting weeks vs. fast free weeks and exclude fixed date Great Feast which might impinge on Tuesdays there are roughly 34 "OK" days, or a little under 10% of a year.


Assume arguendo, that a normal human pregnancy is 270+/- days with a 10% deviation to account for pre and post mature births.

I am shocked I say, shocked at the obvious sinning going on! So apparently the "Greek" song about Sundays gets it wrong....(Never on a Sunday....)

I'm guessing the good professor was proceeding younger in cheek (ugh..bad pun...) and a lot of giggling followed the chart!

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: desertman] #409467 11/18/14 11:38 AM
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Thomas the Seeker Offline
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Originally Posted by desertman
I wonder if those canons could be part of the reason for the practice of infrequent Communion in some churches.


Yes!

That is a major factor of how the pattern of Communing only at Nativity, Pascha, and the Dormition arose (bad pun) as everyone was supposed to be fasting/abstaining during the Fasts which precede.

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: DMD] #409468 11/18/14 11:45 AM
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Thomas the Seeker Offline
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Originally Posted by DMD
)
I'm guessing the good professor was proceeding younger in cheek (ugh..bad pun...) and a lot of giggling followed the chart!

Giggles, and the very serious question of "how many days", leading to my rapid calculation of 34 give or take.

When I was in Seminary the first time a classmate, upon learning that I was soon to be Married advised me to put a quarter in a jug every "time" for the first three years; "and then if you start taking one out every time they'll last the rest of your lifetime".

Let's just say I haven't needed 34 quarters a year for quite some time.

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: Michael_Thoma] #409511 11/20/14 02:59 PM
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Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
There are married priests who wonder about the rule governing even sleeping with their wives in the same room on the night before they are to celebrate the Divine Liturgy.

One could say that the DL is not celebrated every day in Eastern Churches, but one would find this practice in EC and also in many EO parishes.

Traditionally, fasting periods in history have involved abstention (for all Christians, ordained and lay) not only from meats and public entertainments but also from sexual relations.

In the Canons of St John II, Metropolitan of Kiev and Rus', we read that all Christians were to abstain from sexual relations on all Wednesdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays - days of fasting and when the Divine Liturgy was attended when Christians always approached Holy Communion as well (it was also a rule that every Christian should be prepared to receive Holy Communion at every Divine Liturgy).

I've told newly ordained married priests (whose wives/presbyteras have asked them to call me for my advice . . .) that they should use their own good judgement and that they shouldn't see sexual relations as an evil thing, that they are not monastics etc.

Have I done wrong?

Alex
since many of our bishops prefer the Latin praxis and minimums.. make it a 1hr fast.. not one hour from the beginning of Liturgy, 1hr from the end of the epiclesis.. grin


Very good indeed, sir!! grin

Alex

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #409557 11/22/14 01:05 PM
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Paul B Offline
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I'm a married deacon, so please allow me a few words.

First, I am counter-cultural. I refuse to speak to anyone regarding what sexual relations my wife and I share. I understand that sex is the most popular spectator and active participation sport in the USA, but I refuse to participate in those conversations.
If any parishioner, or anyone else, questions the mix of my sacramental gifts of marriage and ordination I will refuse to answer. To me this is nearly as sacred as the seal of confession.

To those who want to ask but do not, I refer them to St John Climacus' writings on lust.

Second, isn't is odd that those who advocate married priests will consider this to be a relevant question. Why would you impose celibacy, even be it temporary?


Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: Paul B] #409558 11/22/14 01:12 PM
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byzanTN Offline
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Paul B, its too bad there isn't a "thank" or "like" button in relation to these posts. You would get one. How on earth could what deacons do and when be anyone's business but their own? Is outrage, as that famous Russian priest would say.

BTW, the recent statement by Pope Francis changes Church positions on permanent celibacy for priests in eastern Catholic churches. It never should have been an issue to begin with.

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: Paul B] #409559 11/22/14 01:28 PM
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DMD Offline
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Amen. Amen. Amen.

On this, both sides of the aisle - Eastern Catholic and Orthodox can surely agree.

Thank you!

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #409560 11/22/14 01:29 PM
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Thank you byzanTN. I posted Metropolitan William's letter announcing the desired reception of seminary applications of married men (my translation, not his words) on Facebook's"byzantine catholics"

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: Paul B] #409577 11/23/14 11:51 PM
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Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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This reminds me of a relative of mine who is a married priest and who concelebrated with a priest who was a member of a religious Order.

He said that just before he vested, the other priest shot at him to say, "Did you sleep with your wife last night?" frown

Happily, my relative told him it was none of his business and if he was so interested in such topics then perhaps he should have gotten married prior to ordination himself . . . smile

Alex

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #409590 11/24/14 08:37 PM
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Paul B Offline
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Amen, Alex.

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #409600 11/25/14 08:12 AM
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Ritual purity has no place in Christian theology or piety. If we fast, we do so not because some things are clean or unclean, but simply to become masters of our passions. This distinction slowly became lost in the early middle ages, and, ironically, can be regarded as a kind of "judaizing" tendency (even as the Church went off chasing "judaizers" We should work to rid ourselves of such notions, so that we fast in the manner that the Fathers intended us to fast, and not out of some misguided zeal to avoid ritual pollution.

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: Paul B] #409604 11/25/14 10:22 AM
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Dear Paul,

You are not only a Deacon, but also a Beacon!

(My wife is an urban planner, BTW.)

Alex

Re: Alex's Question on Married EC Priests and their wives [Re: StuartK] #409605 11/25/14 10:23 AM
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Dear Stuart,

Brilliant, as per your usual sir . . .

Alex

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