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Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish #409284
11/10/14 12:53 PM
11/10/14 12:53 PM
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Posts: 12
Chicago, IL & Washington, D.C.
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Constantine Cesak Offline OP
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Constantine Cesak  Offline OP
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In the last few years, I've wanted to learn the Irish and learn about my (paternal) Irish ancestry. Although the last member of my family who had any knowledge of Irish was my Great Grandmother (and I believe that was limited to just about the Our Father), I want to learn the language regardless. I was quite surprised, thus, to read about the ministry of Fr. Serge Kelleher and the Ukrainian Catholic Church in Ireland. I was really surprised to read on a website that Fr. Kelleher and the UGCC released a bilingual edition of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in both Irish and Ukrainian (it might've been Church Slavonic if I recall correctly) and on a blog that the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has also celebrated the Divine Liturgy in Irish, too. However, despite searching the internet for any online copy or anywhere where I could purchase a copy, I just can't find anything at all. I've considered writing a letter to the main office of the UGCC in Ireland and asked an Eastern Catholic friend of mine to help me write an email in Ukrainian (their website is entirely in Ukrainian: that's why I think it might be better to communicate with them in Ukrainian), but we're all so busy this semester. I figured that I might have a shot of finding someone who can answer my question here. Is there anyone, anyone at all, that has any sort of connection to the Ukrainian Catholic Church anywhere in Ireland and knows where I could purchase a print copy of this bilingual edition? On second thought, does anyone also know if such a copy exists online as well? Thank you.

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Constantine Cesak] #409580
11/24/14 08:08 AM
11/24/14 08:08 AM
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Posts: 493
Farmington Hills,MI
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Fr. Al Offline
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Fr. Al  Offline
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I'd like a copy as well..It's a pity I didn't speak to Fr. Serge about it when he was alive.

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Constantine Cesak] #409586
11/24/14 07:08 PM
11/24/14 07:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 314
Fairfax, VA, USA
JLF Offline
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I will look into my archives, but I seem to recall publishing an all Irish edition of the Divine Liturgy for Father Serge, that was approved by the Melkite Patriarch (I can't remember if it was Gregorios or his predecessor, Maximos). But it might have been bi-lingual too. It was in the mid 1990s. I'll look to see what I might have on my bookshelf (I think I made one or two special hardbound editions, one that went Fr Serge's library) and/or on my computer archives.

Jack Figel
Publisher
Eastern Christian Publications

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Fr. Al] #409589
11/24/14 08:16 PM
11/24/14 08:16 PM
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Posts: 12
Chicago, IL & Washington, D.C.
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Constantine Cesak Offline OP
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Constantine Cesak  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Fr. Al
I'd like a copy as well..It's a pity I didn't speak to Fr. Serge about it when he was alive.


That's okay, Fr., we have the next best thing. I emailed Fr. Vasyl Kormitsky, Fr. Serge's successor in Dublin. The Latin Archdiocese of Dublin was very helpful; they gave me his full name, email address, and even his phone number. I also called the Eparchy of Newton; the deacon that picked up the phone that day, Dn. Paul, said he'd ask anyone with connections to the Melkite College in Rome for help.

Originally Posted by JLF
I will look into my archives, but I seem to recall publishing an all Irish edition of the Divine Liturgy for Father Serge, that was approved by the Melkite Patriarch (I can't remember if it was Gregorios or his predecessor, Maximos). But it might have been bi-lingual too. It was in the mid 1990s. I'll look to see what I might have on my bookshelf (I think I made one or two special hardbound editions, one that went Fr Serge's library) and/or on my computer archives.

Jack Figel
Publisher
Eastern Christian Publications


Buíochas le Dia!
For what it's worth, I can help you narrow down your search. An article online says that the Divine Liturgy was first celebrated in Irish on Halloween, 1999, in the Melkite College of Rome, and the translation was personally blessed by Patriarch Maximos.

I live in Washington, D.C. about the half of the year, so I might live near you, Fr. If you an online copy, or you have any publications for sale, I don't think I'd ever be ever fully thank you. I'm not in Washington now (I flew back home to Chicago and I'm on my way to Phoenix tomorrow), but I'll be back late the 2nd and there until the 15th. Le cúnamh Dé, if you find a physical or online copy, I hope that I would be able to meet you. You by any chance aren't a part of Fáilte DC, the Irish language club of DC that meets on Thursday evenings, are you? As far as I know, no Orthodox Church has blessed an Irish translation, but I hope to change that by getting His Beatitude, Tikhon's blessing, although the OCA has little use for it (who knows, maybe they do?)

Rath Dé ort & go raibh maith agat,
Coiseam

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Constantine Cesak] #409601
11/25/14 08:15 AM
11/25/14 08:15 AM
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Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
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StuartK Offline
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Father Serge was most certainly using some sort of Gaelic service book during the last decade of his life. His Liturgies were generally celebrated in an eclectic mix of Slavonic, Ukrainian and Gaelic--no English need apply.

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Constantine Cesak] #409630
11/27/14 01:23 PM
11/27/14 01:23 PM
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Farmington Hills,MI
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Fr. Al Offline
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To Stuart: "no English need apply", I love it. I'm sadly reminded of a Czech-American Reader in my first parish. He was a former RC who became Orthodox because he didn't care for the New Mass, nor English.When I pushed for more English, he couldn't deal with it.He may have gone over to the Pius X people before he died. I wouldn't have minded his devotion to Slavonic so much, had he been able to pronounce it. He wasn't even fluent in Czech, his accent was Texan! May God rest his soul!
To Coiseam: Dia Duit! Ni tha, I live in the Detroit area, I studied Irish at the local Gaelic League. I believe I related to Fr. Serge on this forum that I comitted the fatal mistake of ordering a Bushmills whiskey there! It was served in a plastic cup with a hostile look. An Irish Catholic friend teases me about it to this day.

When there was the referendom for an Independent Scotland, I texted him, voicing my support. He thought it was a bad idea.,so I asked him if he was ok with the six counties of Northern Ireland staying in the UK. He replied,"Yes, as long as they drink their whiskey in a plastic cup!B-)


they drink their whiskey in a plastic cup!"

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Fr. Al] #409641
11/27/14 10:49 PM
11/27/14 10:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Orthodox Catholic  Offline
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Actually, the English apparently did apply - Father Serge served in "Irish" not "Gaelic!" smile

He sent me copies of his Divine Liturgy booklet published in both Irish and Ukrainian. On the back of it was a diptych with the icons of St Patrick on one side and Bl. New Hieromartyr Nicholas Charnetsk on the other. Blessed Nicholas had visited Ireland for a Eucharistic Congress and had stayed with the Redemptoristines in Dublin.

Fr. Serge vowed he would turn me into a fluent Irish-speaker if I came over to visit him for a while and he invited us to spend Easter with him.

I couldn't even manage that.

May Father Archimandrite pray unto God for us!

Alex

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Fr. Al] #409652
11/28/14 10:40 PM
11/28/14 10:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,004
Las Vegas
dochawk Offline
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Las Vegas
Originally Posted by Fr. Al
\ I believe I related to Fr. Serge on this forum that I comitted the fatal mistake of ordering a Bushmills whiskey there! It was served in a plastic cup with a hostile look. An Irish Catholic friend teases me about it to this day.


*gasp*

It was a sad day when I learned that Bushmills is made in Occupied Ireland . . .

frown

To this day, of all the various things I've been accused of, Fr. Serge is the only priest to blame me for the oatmeal on his computer screen . . .

hawk

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Constantine Cesak] #409661
11/29/14 02:53 PM
11/29/14 02:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 493
Farmington Hills,MI
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Fr. Al Offline
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That's just it OCCUPIED IRELAND.If it makes the local Irish feel any better, I once boycotted a performance by Scotland's Black Watch regiment because the local Irish comminity was boycotting them. Since I had gotten free tickets, that hit this half-Scotsman where it hurt!:-D

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Constantine Cesak] #409684
11/30/14 03:38 PM
11/30/14 03:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 493
Farmington Hills,MI
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Fr. Al Offline
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Constantine, I tried sending you a PM, but you're over the limit.

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Constantine Cesak] #409759
12/03/14 05:17 PM
12/03/14 05:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 294
East of the West
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Mark R Offline
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East of the West
You know, I have met folks from either side of the Island who do not haggle over these differences. "It is all Ireland." they would say.

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Fr. Al] #409779
12/04/14 11:40 PM
12/04/14 11:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12
Chicago, IL & Washington, D.C.
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Constantine Cesak Offline OP
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Constantine Cesak  Offline OP
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Chicago, IL & Washington, D.C.
Dear Fr. Al,

I think because I'm so new, I still don't have the full rights of regular members. I can't view people's profiles, everything I write requires approval, and I'm going to guess that I can't even receive messages yet (I don't think it's a matter of having too many messages because the only one I have is the message automatically generated when I created my account). Would you be able to email me any clues you have to tracking down a copy of the DL in Irish to me via my email at constantinecesak@gmail.com, please? If you have the time, that is!

Thank you,
Constantine

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Constantine Cesak] #409807
12/07/14 05:55 PM
12/07/14 05:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 493
Farmington Hills,MI
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Fr. Al Offline
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Fr. Al  Offline
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Or you may e-mail me at andreialexiev@yahoo.com. I was wondering about your background since your surname appears to be Czech or Slovak. Or Slovene or Belarusian?

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: Constantine Cesak] #409808
12/07/14 06:03 PM
12/07/14 06:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,425
Hollidaysburg, PA
theophan Offline
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theophan  Offline
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Constantine:

Christ is in our midst!!

Welcome to the forum.

All new members are put on full moderation. It is not something peculiar to you. We've had to do this because of some of the new members who have come here and ahve caused problems.

I'll ask the admin to give you full privileges.

Bob
Moderator

Re: Translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish [Re: theophan] #409816
12/07/14 10:54 PM
12/07/14 10:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12
Chicago, IL & Washington, D.C.
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Constantine Cesak Offline OP
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Constantine Cesak  Offline OP
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Chicago, IL & Washington, D.C.
Originally Posted by Fr. Al
Or you may e-mail me at andreialexiev@yahoo.com. I was wondering about your background since your surname appears to be Czech or Slovak. Or Slovene or Belarusian?


Thanks, Fr. I'll do that right now.

Good eye. I am only 1/8th Czech (or "Bohemian" as my Dad says, but I'm not sure if our family was from Bohemia), 3/4ths Irish, and 4/8ths Greek. Because my Czech family has been estranged for decades, neither my Father nor I know anything about our roots. I think, though, that my family moved from their hometown to the Pilsen neighborhood of Chicago, but that's only a theory I have. I was raised by my Greek family, so I'm a Greek speaker with dual citizenship, so I've only really associated as an American or a Greek. I only started trying to learn Irish as an adult: the only evidence of Irish speaking in the family that I know of was that my Great-Grandmother could recite the Lord's Prayer in Irish.

I am trying to learn Ukrainian and Russian (and Persian) on the side, though, from friends. My parish priest is Ukrainian, so I just ask him what a word is in Ukrainian and in Russian, and he says to me. That's why most words I know are church-related: I'm far from even being an amateur Ukrainian and Russian speaker! You're not Ukrainian by any chance, are you?

Go raibh maith agat,
A Coiseam

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