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Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes #410738
02/24/15 06:03 AM
02/24/15 06:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,111
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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I was shocked to learn of the behaviour of Ukrainian Catholics with respect to Ruthenian parishes in areas where there are no UGCC parishes, namely, that they attach themselves to Roman Rite parishes rather than attend the Ruthenian ones.

There is no excuse for that and I would be interested in knowing the reasoning behind that nonsense - especially since our Bl. Hierarch Andrew Sheptytsky took such pains at one time to encourage Ukrainian Catholic immigrants to even attend Ukrainian Orthodox parishes rather than Roman Catholic ones and risk losing their heritage and EC (as well as cultural) identity.

Alex

Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #410740
02/24/15 07:35 AM
02/24/15 07:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 294
East of the West
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Mark R Offline
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When I attended Ruthenian services, there were always a few Ukrainian stalwart families (though Canadian or American born) whom we could count on. However, they would attend the then monthly Ukrainian liturgy--when it was offered.
We had an older couple who were Maramoros Ukrainians who attended a couple of times, but because of the language barrier I supposed they stopped. Some time later, I saw them at the ROCOR sobor.

Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Mark R] #410747
02/24/15 11:20 AM
02/24/15 11:20 AM
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Canada
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Dear Mark,

Thanks for sharing that! (Marmarosh Ukrainians - a term I haven't heard in a while . . .).

For me, an EC Byzantine liturgy is an EC Byzantine liturgy is an . . .

This reminds me of when I took my grandfather and uncle to a Latin Rite Liturgy when we were on vacation. My grandfather, a priest, wore his clerical collar. During the sermon, the Latiin Catholic priest acknowledged and welcomed my grandfather (who didn't speak English). Afterwards, as we were leaving, the deacon came to us and said that Father wanted to speak with my grandfather. To this, my uncle replied, "Well, I dunno - leenguage problem . . ."

My brother and I laughed all the way home and then some . . . grin

I guess those people you mention have the same problem!

Teyk kir,

Aleeks

Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #410752
02/24/15 09:30 PM
02/24/15 09:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
Portland, OR USA
Lester S Offline
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I've encountered some of what you described, first hand; but, I do know one of these people does go to the Ukrainian Orthodox parish, on occasion. However, he's more attached to the local Roman Catholic parish, where I met him

The intriguing thing is he is about preserving the Slavonic/Ukrainian. He'll even cross himself in the Eastern manner. He's an older fellow who does have sons to spend time with; it is likely his ex wife is Roman Catholic. It's hard to re-program people, when they've been entrenched in a certain mode of doing things.


Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Lester S] #410755
02/25/15 05:32 AM
02/25/15 05:32 AM
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You are more than correct sir!

I'm a prime example myself!

Aleeks

Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #410763
02/26/15 06:42 AM
02/26/15 06:42 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,953
Upstate New York
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DMD Offline
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Over on FB, there are several threads in which parties on both 'sides' of the Galician divide - today's Ukrainians and today's Rusyns (found either in the ACROD or the BCC in America) - seem to revel in insulting each other. Apparently it is a grand tradition dating back centuries - But for the most part, but for the few Galician 'Hatfields' and the fewer Rusyn 'McCoys', the majority of posters are less interested in what divided us, but rather in what we hold in common. ( I say fewer Rusyns not because they are less contrarian, but because they are smaller in number by far.)

(Heck, we just ordered a nice set of Paschal vestments from a vendor in L'viv.... Far less expensive than in the States, Canada or the EU by far! And the vendors I was referred to were savvy...they featured both Greek and Russian style vestments and both are proud to serve the 'Eastern Christian' community. One even had a link to a Hramota from the UGCC Metropolitan as well as one to the regional Orthodox one...)

Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #410764
02/26/15 06:43 AM
02/26/15 06:43 AM
Joined: May 2009
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Upstate New York
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Sorry, a 'hramota' is a stylized sort of 'thank you' from a Bishop to a layperson, parish, priest, organization etc...for service to the Church.

Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: DMD] #410768
02/26/15 02:25 PM
02/26/15 02:25 PM
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Canada
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You are the one who deserves a Hramota, DMD!

Alex

Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: DMD] #410770
02/26/15 04:00 PM
02/26/15 04:00 PM
Joined: May 2010
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Texas USA
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JimG Online content
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Would you mind sharing the vendors contact info. thanks

Jim

Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #410778
02/28/15 03:02 AM
02/28/15 03:02 AM
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Northeastern Pennsylvania
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Socalled Ruthenians in our area avoid the Ukrainian Catholic churches. Nothing new.

Last edited by Pavloosh; 02/28/15 03:02 AM.
Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Pavloosh] #410788
02/28/15 06:21 PM
02/28/15 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Pavloosh
Socalled Ruthenians in our area avoid the Ukrainian Catholic churches. Nothing new.


And vice-versa? Is that a good thing?

Alex

Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Pavloosh] #410790
02/28/15 06:28 PM
02/28/15 06:28 PM
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Fatherhood
Nelson Chase Offline
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Quote
Socalled Ruthenians in our area avoid the Ukrainian Catholic churches. Nothing new.


And Ukrainian Greek Catholics in my area avoid my Byzantine Catholic parish. Sadly, this is nothing new. This is a problem of both our churches. A Melkite mission uses our temple, do you think they participate with us? Nope. We've opened everything to them but rarely, if ever, do we do anything together, or see a Melkite join our adult classes for example.

We need to stop bickering and pointing out others faults, and actually act like we are in communion with each other.

Inter-Greek Catholic cooperation and participation is painfully pathetic. Ukrainians, Byzantines, Melkites, and Romanians need to work together because if we don't soon there won't be a Greek Catholic Church in America. We need to think outside of our own little cliques and evangelize or else we will be but a distant memory.

Last edited by Nelson Chase; 02/28/15 06:29 PM.
Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #410796
03/01/15 04:22 PM
03/01/15 04:22 PM
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I had an experience about pan-Slav and Ukrainian relationships this weekend at an area chainsaw carving festival. There were 3 Slovak and a Czech who were carving together. The Czech spoke good English and I had a conversation with him about the region. I asked him if he was Bohemian or Moravian, and he said he grew up in the Moravian area but considered himself a Slav first and preferred Czecho-Slovak to Czech. He said the he doesn't relate to the people in Prague at all; in fact he is turned off by them, that he would rather associate with the Polish or Slovaks.
I mentioned that I felt sorry for the Ukrainians regarding the Russian rebellion. I was taken aback with his reply, "I don't, they deserve it." He said the Ukrainians government is corrupt and controlled by the Mafia. He claimed that travellers are robbed and left broke.
I don't know how widespread his knowledge is, but he said he travels a lot and has been to many countries, but Ukraine is a place that he doesn't want to go back to.
It reminded me of the stories told by a Presov Greek Catholic priest who spent years in Soviet concentration prisons and gulags (The book was call "___? Years Behind Barbed Wire". He wrote that the Ukrainian priests were shunned by everyone because of their attitudes and that they couldn't be trusted. Even the imprisoned Russian Orthodox would come to him, rather than the Ukrainian priests, or even their Russian Orthodox priests.
It was a sad commentary, along with my recent conversation with the Czech. I hope that this isn't a universal attitude.

Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #410797
03/01/15 04:25 PM
03/01/15 04:25 PM
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By the way, I had one of the Slovaks carve the coat of arms of my grandparents village, Slovinky. (St George in armour on a horse slaying the dragon. It is on my facebook page (Paul Boboige). I will the wood dry out and will either stain it or paint it.

Re: Ukrainians and Ruthenian parishes [Re: Paul B] #410802
03/01/15 05:57 PM
03/01/15 05:57 PM
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Dear Paul,

Yes, the Ukrainian government is indeed corrupt. But that corruption comes from a specific source . . . He has obviously never been to Moscow smile.

And everyone's experiences with Ukrainian and Russian priests are different. To make a universal judgement as that fellow did is simply uncharitable, not to mention his shocking commentary that the Ukrainians deserve to suffer and die etc.

However, in Prague there are Ukrainian Orthodox priests who are under the omophorion of the Metropolitan of Czechia and Slovakia - they gave me an icon of St Gorazd the Holy New Hieromartyr under the Nazis.

I also saw how EC and Orthodox priests there wouldn't speak to one another.

I was shocked to see that at my mother's retirement residence recently as well.

As you say, this is all a very grave problem - even more of a problem when EC's don't cooperate amongst themselves.

Alex

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