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Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Filipe YTOL] #410909
03/15/15 03:41 PM
03/15/15 03:41 PM
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Metropolitan Detroit, MI
Sub-Deacon Ghazaros Offline
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Dear Brothers,

Very good posts on this thread! I can not add anything to them except a historical point. What I find interesting about this is the choice of St. Gregory. The two greatest spiritual writers from the Armenian tradition are St. Gregory of Narek (which rhymes with "car-wreck") smile and St. Nersess Shnorhali (the Grace-filled). I have read that the Armenian Catholic Church appealed to Rome for the 1700th anniversary of the conversion of Armenia (in AD 2001) that St. Nersess be proclaimed a Doctor of the Church. This apparently was not the time for such a proclamation (for whatever reasons). St. Nersess seems to me to be the more natural choice. Like Gregory he was a monastic and, obviously a man of deep prayer and insight. But he was a more prolific writer (in various genres) and a tremendous teacher, being Catholicos-Patriarch. So it was a surprise to me that St. Narek was chosen. But I have long referred to him as a great "Doctor of Repentance" so perhaps this is what was deemed was most needed for the Catholic Church today: St. Gregory's great insights into prayer and repentance. I guess we will see as this proclamation coincides with the commemoration of the 100th Anniversary of the Armenian Genocide. By the way, there will also be the canonization of the Armenian Martyrs of the Armenian Genocide on April 24, 2015 by the Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Church. These will be the first newly canonized saints of the Armenian Church since St. Gregory of Datev of the 15th century!

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Sub-Deacon Ghazaros] #410913
03/15/15 09:19 PM
03/15/15 09:19 PM
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Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Dear Reverend Sub-Deacon,

Would you have an icon or a picture of St Gregory Datev that you could share?

Also, do the Armenian Orthodox have prayer beads? I've seen Armenian Orthodox with Latin rosaries hanging in their cars.

And are there as yet any icons of the Armenian Martyrs of 1915?

Cheers, Alex

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Sub-Deacon Ghazaros] #410923
03/16/15 02:38 PM
03/16/15 02:38 PM
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Rain drenched California
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griego catolico Offline
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Originally Posted by Sub-Deacon Ghazaros
By the way, there will also be the canonization of the Armenian Martyrs of the Armenian Genocide on April 24, 2015 by the Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Church. These will be the first newly canonized saints of the Armenian Church since St. Gregory of Datev of the 15th century!

I am told the canonization only applies to those victims of the genocide who were Armenian Apostolic Christians.

I wonder if there has been any talk of having Pope Francis canonize Blessed Ignatius Maloyan on April 12, when there will be a Soorp Badarak celebrated at Saint Peter's with the Holy Father presiding.

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: griego catolico] #410925
03/17/15 09:49 AM
03/17/15 09:49 AM
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Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Dear Griego,

Yes to both things you raise!

The vast majority of the victims of the Genocide of 1915 were Armenian Orthodox, to be sure.

Blessed Ignatius Maloyam was also martyred along with over 300 (?) Armenian Catholic members of his Archeparchy. I wonder why these were not beatified as well?

The more ancient Christian tradition is to canonize all those who have been martyred - rather than to choose one or just a few for this honour.

Also, "Beatification" is simply a Latin Church thing that does not obtain in the Eastern Churches. The Eastern Churches have local canonizations meaning liturgical veneration of a saint in a specified locale. That locale widens later as the veneration of the saint grows until the cultus takes on national and then universal status. The term "Blessed" (which Eastern Catholics have adopted because Rome told them to wink ) in the East is synonymous with "Venerable" in the West.

It would be good if His Holiness would extend the cultus of "St Ignatius the Hieromartyr" to the Western Church next month . . .

Alex

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #410930
03/18/15 05:25 PM
03/18/15 05:25 PM
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griego catolico Offline
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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
It would be good if His Holiness would extend the cultus of "St Ignatius the Hieromartyr" to the Western Church next month . . .

It'd be nice if His Holiness also canonize Blessed Gomidas Keumurgian. He was a martyr for unity in 1707.
[Linked Image]

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: griego catolico] #410933
03/18/15 08:55 PM
03/18/15 08:55 PM
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Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Very nice! While you're at it, I've a few more Causes it would be really great to have activated . . . smile

Cheers!

Alex





Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Filipe YTOL] #411017
03/31/15 11:26 AM
03/31/15 11:26 AM
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Metropolitan Detroit, MI
Sub-Deacon Ghazaros Offline
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Dear Brothers Alex and "Griego,"

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I don't have an icon of St. Datev handy, but if I come across one, I'll share it with the forum on this thread.

I don't have an icon of the Armenian Martyrs. I'll try to contact an Armenian priest to see if there is any plans to write such an icon.

Yes Armenians traditionally use the prayer-rope called in Armenian, "Aghot-a-shar" (lit. prayer-string). It would be very similar if not identical to the Eastern prayer-rope. Why Rosaries? Hard to say, it would just be my speculation.

It makes sense that the Armenian Orthodox Church is canonizing only members of her own Church. Its probably better that other jurisdictions canonize those they feel worthy of canonization.

I thought St. Ignatius was fully canonized by Rome. Are you guys sure he isn't?

I'm trying to recall was Bl. Gomidas the priest with eight children? I remember finding that story very inspiring (especially as a man with eight children). :-)

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Sub-Deacon Ghazaros] #411018
03/31/15 11:42 AM
03/31/15 11:42 AM
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Nelson Chase Offline
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I have a question related to the Armenian Church (both Catholic and Orthodox). I recently read a comment on Facebook that claimed that the Armenian Catholic and Armenian Apostolic (Orthodox) are in full communion with each other. Is this true? I personally didn't think it is was because if it were true I would think it would be widely know as a great achievement of ecumenical dialogue.

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Filipe YTOL] #411024
03/31/15 03:30 PM
03/31/15 03:30 PM
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Brooklyn, NY USA
Economos Roman V. Russo Offline
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Are you perhaps thinking of the Assyrian Church of the East and the Chaldean Catholic Church. They enjoy virtual intercommunion.

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Filipe YTOL] #411025
03/31/15 03:31 PM
03/31/15 03:31 PM
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Economos Roman V. Russo Offline
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Are you perhaps thinking of the Assyrian Church of the East and the Chaldean Catholic Church. They enjoy virtual intercommunion.

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Economos Roman V. Russo] #411026
03/31/15 04:27 PM
03/31/15 04:27 PM
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Nelson Chase Offline
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Quote
Are you perhaps thinking of the Assyrian Church of the East and the Chaldean Catholic Church. They enjoy virtual intercommunion.


No, he said it was the Armenian Churches.

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Filipe YTOL] #411040
04/01/15 08:12 AM
04/01/15 08:12 AM
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Portugal
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Filipe YTOL Offline OP
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Hello all,
I have been searching for places to buy a copy of St. Gregory's Book of Lamentations, but I can't find any paper versions online... Amazon.com has hardback copies for about 280 dollars...

Does anybody know where I could get one?

Filipe

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Filipe YTOL] #411041
04/01/15 10:08 AM
04/01/15 10:08 AM
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NY
Curious Joe Offline
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Perhaps not as nice as having a book on the shelf, but the link below may be of some interest:

Book of Prayer (The Book of Lamentations)

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Filipe YTOL] #411043
04/01/15 12:22 PM
04/01/15 12:22 PM
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Posts: 301
Portugal
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Filipe YTOL Offline OP
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Portugal
Thanks Curious Joe, but I really wanted to have the book...
Regards!

Re: St. Gregory of Narek - Doctor of the Church [Re: Filipe YTOL] #411054
04/02/15 08:59 AM
04/02/15 08:59 AM
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griego catolico Offline
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Originally Posted by Filipe YTOL
Hello all,
I have been searching for places to buy a copy of St. Gregory's Book of Lamentations, but I can't find any paper versions online... Amazon.com has hardback copies for about 280 dollars...

Does anybody know where I could get one?

Filipe


I would recommend contacting an Armenian Apostolic parish. Chances are it has a bookstore where you may purchase a copy. I have a copy of the Book of Lamentations which was given to me by the pastor of the local Armenian parish which has a bookstore.

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