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Re: Orthodox Gifts of Episcopal Office to non-Orthodox [Re: LibCath2000] #411589 05/23/15 04:06 PM
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I think many times Westerners misinterpret kindness for acceptance. The EP may be kind to Anglicans - he is kind to everyone, however he will not move even as far as Rome in accepting the 'Dutch Touch' or any other move short of full ordination (maybe even baptism, depending on who is asked) for any Anglican clergy coming into union with him.

Re: Orthodox Gifts of Episcopal Office to non-Orthodox [Re: LibCath2000] #411592 05/23/15 05:26 PM
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LibCath2000 Offline OP
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I was definitely not trying to be intentionally polemical.

I wanted to know how common it was to have full ecclesiastical, episcopal vestments sent by the EP himself to non-Orthodox prelates. And this question, though answered, opened the discussion to other topics.

So later on, I was inclined to agree with the assessment that some Orthodox hierarchs viewed our Anglican orders as "mystery". This view neither affirmed OR denied anything. And for me that was an example of true charity, especially in instances where no ecclesial communion existed.

This may account for why only the esteemed Orthodox Metropolitans were seated in places of honor at this particular consecration.

And even though some would deny Anglicanism's catholicity ... we Anglicans can do nothing but affirm what we are ... Reformed Catholics.

Re: Orthodox Gifts of Episcopal Office to non-Orthodox [Re: LibCath2000] #411598 05/23/15 09:43 PM
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Nelson Chase Offline
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So later on, I was inclined to agree with the assessment that some Orthodox hierarchs viewed our Anglican orders as "mystery". This view neither affirmed OR denied anything. And for me that was an example of true charity, especially in instances where no ecclesial communion existed.


I think the practice of never receiving Anglican clerics as clerics makes pretty clear the Orthodox understanding of Anglican orders.

Quote
This may account for why only the esteemed Orthodox Metropolitans were seated in places of honor at this particular consecration.


I believe that Catholic clergy have been seated in places of honor at Anglican ordinations in the past. BTW, even though the Catholic Church does not recognize Anglican orders, that doesn't mean we don't invite Anglican bishops to our ordinations and treat them with respect. In fact, I've seen many pictures of Anglican bishops sitting with Orthodox ones as ecumenical guests at Catholic liturgies.



Last edited by Nelson Chase; 05/23/15 09:49 PM.
Re: Orthodox Gifts of Episcopal Office to non-Orthodox [Re: Michael_Thoma] #411599 05/23/15 09:48 PM
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Nelson Chase Offline
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I think many times Westerners misinterpret kindness for acceptance. The EP may be kind to Anglicans - he is kind to everyone, however he will not move even as far as Rome in accepting the 'Dutch Touch' or any other move short of full ordination (maybe even baptism, depending on who is asked) for any Anglican clergy coming into union with him.


Spot on. It has been the Catholic Church who has accepted some Anglican priests, with the so-called "Dutch Touch", and only conditionally ordained them priests. I am thinking of the former Anglican bishop of London who became a Catholic priest.

Last edited by Nelson Chase; 05/23/15 09:49 PM.
Re: Orthodox Gifts of Episcopal Office to non-Orthodox [Re: LibCath2000] #411601 05/23/15 10:20 PM
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LibCath2000 Offline OP
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I often forget how truly black and white the world can be for some people.

I was pushing no agenda in my posts on this topic ... and I think that's fairly clear from what I've written. I merely admired what I thought was a positive ecumenical overture by some Eastern Orthodox clerics.

But you, Nelson, did seem to have an agenda. At least to me, all of your posts have appeared quite pointed. And I am sorry that you have managed to understand nothing about what I was saying.

I had hoped that Eastern Orthodox posters might have shared some insights or even anecdotes about similar positive developments in our ecumenical relations rather than just use the opportunity to impugn another faith. Which is of course your prerogative, but I had just hoped for something a little less negative.

Re: Orthodox Gifts of Episcopal Office to non-Orthodox [Re: LibCath2000] #411602 05/23/15 10:51 PM
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Nelson Chase Offline
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This is what I responding too:

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But I think that the “reverently agnostic” position, which Serge mentioned, vis-à-vis the sacrament of ordination, is probably the most charitable attitude that “catholic” churches not in communion with one another can have.


I am sorry but there is no "reverently agnostic" position on the sacrament of ordination from the Catholic position. I also believe the same is true from the Orthodox viewpoint as well. I contend that being honest about the Catholic and Orthodox position on certain issues is the most charitable thing to do. I am sorry if I have offended you and this will be my last post on this thread.





Re: Orthodox Gifts of Episcopal Office to non-Orthodox [Re: LibCath2000] #411725 06/01/15 03:11 PM
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70x7 Offline
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A chalice is the highest gift usually offered. It would signal a recognition of the Eucharist celebrated by that Body. It is a rare event.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2177685/posts

Last edited by 70x7; 06/01/15 03:32 PM.
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