The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
deaconjoseph2021, Kirah, Faithwisdom, Tredoslop, RPAW68
5,691 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 74 guests, and 105 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
by Santiago Tarsicio, March 17
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
by JLF, November 10
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Upgraded Russian icon corner
by The young fogey, October 20
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
by likethethief, June 12
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,939
Posts413,320
Members5,691
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
70x7 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
I always wondered why is the text of the Nicean Creed different in the Armenian Apostolic Church.

Here it follows:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, of things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the begotten of God the Father, the Only-begotten, that is of the essence of the Father.
God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten and not made; of the very same nature of the Father, by Whom all things came into being, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible.
Who for us humanity and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate, was made human, was born perfectly of the holy virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit.
By whom He took body, soul, and mind, and everything that is in man, truly and not in semblance.
He suffered, was crucified, was buried, rose again on the third day, ascended into heaven with the same body, [and] sat at the right hand of the Father.
He is to come with the same body and with the glory of the Father, to judge the living and the dead; of His kingdom there is no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, in the uncreated and the perfect; Who spoke through the Law, prophets, and Gospels; Who came down upon the Jordan, preached through the apostles, and lived in the saints.
We believe also in only One, Universal, Apostolic, and [Holy] Church; in one baptism in repentance, for the remission, and forgiveness of sins; and in the resurrection of the dead, in the everlasting judgement of souls and bodies, and the Kingdom of Heaven and in the everlasting life.

Any scholarly thoughts? Way different. Definately not the common received text we all know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed#Armenian_liturgical_text


Ray
www.theologyincolor.com

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,693
Likes: 4
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,693
Likes: 4
Quote
Who for us humanity and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate, was made human,


Ray:

Christ is in our midst!!

I don't have an opinion on the bulk of the text--why it is not like the common text we all know--but this line shows the recent influence of English, politically correct, feminist language. More likely than not just a recent alteration of the translation from Armenian.

Bob

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
70x7 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
Notice there is not even the article about the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father. The Armenian version says: "We believe in the Holy Spirit, in the uncreated and the perfect; Who spoke through the Law, prophets, and Gospels; Who came down upon the Jordan, preached through the apostles, and lived in the saints."

Interesting version, nothing un-orthodox about it, yet it appears to be not the common statement of belief of the undivided Church.

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,698
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,698
If I'm not mistaken, this creed predates the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed by several years. St Epiphanius gives a version of it in Ancoratus, ch. 119-120. I think it was used as a baptismal formula in the Church of Jerusalem, from which the Armenians have received much of their tradition.

Note that the wiki entry refers to this creed as a "liturgical form". The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed remains as a profession of faith, but the liturgical form is what most people hear and recite. Though it isn't uncommon to hear it referred to as "the Nicene Creed", it is technically incorrect.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,184
Likes: 5
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,184
Likes: 5
As to the lack of a statement on the Procession of the Holy Spirit, it is just like our Armenian brothers and sisters to want to step back from a really controversial issue! smile

I love their Local Creed. The translation of "humanity" is interesting and Bob probably has the rights of it in his explanation.

The monk Eutyches, as we know, refused to agree that Christ took on our humanity. For him and others like him at the time, it appeared to be impious to have said so (he it was who was called "Monophysite" as a result, and the Oriental Churches have always condemned Eutychianism).

However, in the end, Eutyches had no problem accepting that Christ took His Humanity from the Theotokos and I believe there is a creed that makes such an affirmation to satisfy his ilk.

That creed is perfectly Orthodox as well.

Greetings and salutations to Mor Ephrem here! We haven't heard from the Catholicos for a very long time! (How have you been sir?)

And his epithet of "Catholicos" comes from a thread, long ago, when people here were discussing vagante orders and some began to consecrate bishops and patriarchs in like manner - among them, Mor Ephrem. This moniker, alone of all those "consecrations" then, has endured all these years.

Alex

Last edited by Orthodox Catholic; 07/06/15 09:41 PM.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,698
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,698
Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
Greetings and salutations to Mor Ephrem here! We haven't heard from the Catholicos for a very long time! (How have you been sir?)

And his epithet of "Catholicos" comes from a thread, long ago, when people here were discussing vagante orders and some began to consecrate bishops and patriarchs in like manner - among them, Mor Ephrem. This moniker, alone of all those "consecrations" then, has endured all these years.


I'm glad you mentioned that, Alex. I don't want people thinking I'm "one of those". wink

I'm doing well, friend. And you?


Moderated by  Administrator, Father Anthony 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5