The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
KA Chruszcz, BrotherIsaac, SeekingLight, NoTrueScotsman, Soraya
5,760 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
3 members (Fr. Al, 2 invisible), 123 guests, and 40 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
by Santiago Tarsicio, March 17
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
by JLF, November 10
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Upgraded Russian icon corner
by The young fogey, October 20
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,049
Posts414,030
Members5,760
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#412234 07/05/15 06:41 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 487
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 487
As the feast of Saints Peter and Paul has just passed the other day, it marked 8 years since the RDL has been mandatory in all BCA parishes.

I was wondering if people here could share what has happened at their parishes in the past 8 years since the RDL has been implemented.

Have vocations increased?

Has attendance gone up?

Have the number of females attending and becoming active increased because of the inclusive language?

Have the number of missions started gone up?

Has singing increased?

Thanks in advance.

Monomakh

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Hi Monomakh. I subscribed to this thread more with the intention to read what others say than to speak ... but meanwhile I have come up with a question of my own ...

This is a passage from the document Violations of Vatican Directives Regarding Liturgy in the "Revised Divine Liturgy" promulgated by the Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh 6 January 2007 (Ruthenian-RDL-Violations-Summary.pdf):

Quote
"The Congregation for the Eastern Churches should prepare and promulgate an equivalent of Liturgiam Authenticam for the Eastern Catholic Churches, preferably one prepared in conjunction or consultation with the Orthodox Churches. While Liturgiam Authenticam is a document addressed to the Latin Church the principles of authenticity and accuracy in translation are valid for all Catholic Churches. No new translations of Eastern liturgical texts should be approved until such a directive is in place. This will allow the Eastern Catholic Churches to learn from the problems the Latin Church encountered in translation (especially into English). The current Ruthenian translations mimics the problems the Latin Church is now seeking to fix."

My question, for anyone who might happen to know (or have a good guess) is: Is ^^ this something that many Ruthenian Catholics want to see happen? (I can't say I've encountered many who do, but then again that's not saying much since I'm not very in-the-know regarding Ruthenian Catholics.) And, for that matter, has the Congregation itself given any indication that it might do so?

Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 12
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 12
Originally Posted by Monomakh
As the feast of Saints Peter and Paul has just passed the other day, it marked 8 years since the RDL has been mandatory in all BCA parishes.

I was wondering if people here could share what has happened at their parishes in the past 8 years since the RDL has been implemented.

Have vocations increased?

Has attendance gone up?

Have the number of females attending and becoming active increased because of the inclusive language?

Have the number of missions started gone up?

Has singing increased?

Thanks in advance.

Monomakh

No vocations at my parish since me.
Attendance has gone down. A lot of funerals, a few baptisms.
No more women than before. Two females read the Epistle now.
I think there may be one more mission then when the RDL started.
Singing remains the same.

Did I mention we still use old books and not the RDL.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 12
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 12
Originally Posted by Peter J
Hi Monomakh. I subscribed to this thread more with the intention to read what others say than to speak ... but meanwhile I have come up with a question of my own ...

This is a passage from the document Violations of Vatican Directives Regarding Liturgy in the "Revised Divine Liturgy" promulgated by the Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh 6 January 2007 (Ruthenian-RDL-Violations-Summary.pdf):

Quote
"The Congregation for the Eastern Churches should prepare and promulgate an equivalent of Liturgiam Authenticam for the Eastern Catholic Churches, preferably one prepared in conjunction or consultation with the Orthodox Churches. While Liturgiam Authenticam is a document addressed to the Latin Church the principles of authenticity and accuracy in translation are valid for all Catholic Churches. No new translations of Eastern liturgical texts should be approved until such a directive is in place. This will allow the Eastern Catholic Churches to learn from the problems the Latin Church encountered in translation (especially into English). The current Ruthenian translations mimics the problems the Latin Church is now seeking to fix."

My question, for anyone who might happen to know (or have a good guess) is: Is ^^ this something that many Ruthenian Catholics want to see happen? (I can't say I've encountered many who do, but then again that's not saying much since I'm not very in-the-know regarding Ruthenian Catholics.) And, for that matter, has the Congregation itself given any indication that it might do so?

I don't want anymore directives from Rome. Time to grow up. If asked I am sure 95% would respond "Huh?" The five percent that would have said yes left already.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978
Quote
Have vocations increased?


Our Eparchy has seen two married priest ordained, and two more deacons studying to be priests in the seminary. We also have had a new celibate priest and deacon ordained in the last year and a half. My parish has one man in formation right now with the new class of deacon students. Our eparchy has six deacon students. Also, a new monastery has started in the Northwest.

Quote

Have the number of missions started gone up?


My Eparchy has started at least three to four missions (or outreaches as we call them) in the last couple of years.

The RDL (while not perfect) combined with solid orthodox Eastern Catholicism is working out west, in my opinion.

Last edited by Nelson Chase; 07/18/15 11:05 PM.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
Though not perfect, as said above, it's more important to reawaken the proper liturgical phronema in the sense of offering more services, regularly; It doesn't have to be everyday, either. I think the people of the parish need to have that sense of empowerment, and - dare I say, permission to take ownership of their liturgical life. But, part of that is the proper education on why we have these services, in the first place. I can go on and on, though.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 392
Likes: 1
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 392
Likes: 1
Hello Nelson,

Are you referring to Exaltation of the Holy Cross Monastery in Idaho or a different one? Thank you.

In Christ,
Anthony

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978
Hello Anthony,

I am referring to Duchovny Dom, which was recently established in Weston, OR.

Pray for me,

Nelson

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
I've only had loose contact with the brothers of Duchovny Dom (dagnabbit, gotta stop thinking of David Duchovny :p): great guys; and Father Josef is a real builder; the place is in good hands, as long as he's looking after it.

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 59
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
I don't want anymore directives from Rome. Time to grow up.

It's long past time to grow up. But as long as Ruthenians refuse to act like adults Rome will issue directives each time they misbehave.

Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
If asked I am sure 95% would respond "Huh?" The five percent that would have said yes left already.

Yeah. 95% of "our people" have never heard of any of the official documents. Embarrassing. The people at my parish used to joke about the RDL but that's mostly stopped. They know you have to lump it or leave.

Ruthenians have lost about 6,000 people since 2007. Almost 1/3. I'm told about half of that is through death and the rest just disappeared.

Maybe things will change for the better. Bishop Andrew has gone home to the Lord. The generation of liturgists that gave us the RDL is retiring. At least in Parma no one really cares to enforce the RDL and people are creating their own books. It's a bust and everyone knows it.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,760
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,760
I concelebrated Divine Liturgy at the Fort Collins, Colorado outreach last Sunday (their first experience with a deacon). The 3:00 pm Liturgy was well attended at the RC host parish and it was very vibrant with good singing led by a choir which can read music (a great attribute of the re-published pew books.

There is much interest and a good portion of the congregation are Roman Catholics. Father Michael takes special interest in the children who gather around for the Gospel and homily.

Back East here, it is difficult to retain young cradle Byzantines, but I don't think we are an exception. We probably have more vocations from former RC's and Protestants than we do from cradle Byzantines. So that should tell you that we aren't dying. As Mark Twain said, "reports of my death are premature."

Personally I have been in contact with several Byzantine "converts" or 2nd/3rd generation Byzantines whose parents/grandparents left for the Roman Church but are potential vocations. It will take time for them to learn and become entrenched in the Eastern Church but I expect that we will being seeing an increase in vocations in the next decade.

Last edited by Paul B; 07/21/15 01:24 PM.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,760
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,760
Duchovny Dom Monastery's address is:
Duchovny Dom
Byzantine Catholic Men's Monastic Community
57894 Hwy 204
PO Box 460
Weston, OR 97886

For those of you on facebook, the monastery doesn't have an official presence but you can keep up with it here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nwbyzcathmensmonastery/?fref=ts

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by Dostojno Jest
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
I don't want anymore directives from Rome. Time to grow up.

It's long past time to grow up. But as long as Ruthenians refuse to act like adults Rome will issue directives each time they misbehave.

Thank you for that.

I feel like saying "Thank you, you just proved my point" except that technically I can't BC I didn't make a point. But it's the thought that counts, right? cool

Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 12
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 12
,
Originally Posted by Dostojno Jest
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
I don't want anymore directives from Rome. Time to grow up.

It's long past time to grow up. But as long as Ruthenians refuse to act like adults Rome will issue directives each time they misbehave.

[/quote=Fr. Deacon Lance]


You'll need to remind me of our misbehaving and the directives issued by Rome. The last one I remember was about us misbehaving by ordaining married men after we were told to stop.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,226
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,226
Originally Posted by Monomakh
As the feast of Saints Peter and Paul has just passed the other day, it marked 8 years since the RDL has been mandatory in all BCA parishes.

I was wondering if people here could share what has happened at their parishes in the past 8 years since the RDL has been implemented.


I took my family to the Holy Orthodox Church.....eight years ago. smile

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Father Anthony 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5