The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Vigilante, Poliscifi, The Cub, P H, Hardrada
5603 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
3 registered members (Santiago Tarsicio, 2 invisible), 71 guests, and 432 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
OL EuroEast II (2007) Group
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,737
Posts411,932
Members5,603
Most Online2,716
Jun 7th, 2012
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Orthodox Bishop Mark of Berlin: A Voice in the Wilderness #412419 07/26/15 05:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
T
Tomassus Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
Orthodox Bishop Mark of Berlin: A Voice in the Wilderness

July 25, 2015
By Ralph Sidway
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/07/bishop-mark-of-berlin-a-voice-in-the-wilderness

[Linked Image]
Orthodox Bishop Mark (Arndt) is that rare example of a Christian hierarch speaking the truth about Islam.


Islam is at its core anti-human… Reading the Quran, you will see that all of this [extremism] lies at the foundation of Islam. One must look truth in the eye: this is all anti-human, it is directed against humanity… Yes, there were times when Muslims tried to live in peace with their neighbors, they even acknowledged that we Christians are people, too. But for many, those times have passed, and now they reveal who they really are. — Archbishop Mark (Arndt) of Berlin (Full interview below.)

Regular readers of Jihad Watch are likely familiar with the refusal of Roman Catholic bishops to address the global issue of Muslim persecution of Christians and Jews (and other non-Muslims) and its grounding in the Quran and the example of Muhammad. The prime example may be that of Bishop Robert McManus of Worcester Mass., whose infamous quote reads more like a parody from the Onion every day:

Quote
Talk about extreme, militant Islamists and the atrocities that they have perpetrated globally might undercut the positive achievements that we Catholics have attained in our inter-religious dialogue with devout Muslims.


Pope Francis of course leads this disturbing trend, his Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium including the emphatic affirmation that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.”

It seems many Muslims have failed to read that particular epistle.

Sadly, things are not much different in the Orthodox Church. The world’s second largest Christian communion, comprising between 225 and 300 million members (source), retains a dwindling remnant in the Middle East, the “cradle of Christianity,” and is one of the main bodies suffering most from the resurgent global jihad.

Perhaps because of this suffering Levantine presence, there exists in world Orthodoxy what I would call a “latent dhimmitude.”

Globally, Orthodox Christian leaders, from priests, professors and theologians to bishops and patriarchs (bishops over a national Church, such as Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia), almost to a man shy away from ever openly ascribing the motivation behind Muslim terrorism and persecution of Christians to Islam, and instead offer unconvincing, pious platitudes, such as from Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, who has written of a “dialogue of loving truth” with Islam, of Orthodoxy having for centuries “coexisted peacefully” with Islam, and of an “interfaith commitment… still felt and lived by Greeks [and] Turks.” ( Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, Encountering the Mystery, Doubleday, 2008, pp xxxvii, 196, 174.)

Yet he writes this in spite of fourteen centuries of Islamic jihad against Christians, the enslavement of the Greek Orthodox after the conquering of Constantinople in 1453, and the blood-stained parade of neo-martyrs from the 15th to 19th centuries (including dozens of Ecumenical Patriarchs); in spite of the Turkish Muslim genocide against Orthodox Christians from 1894 to 1922, in which over 4 million Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians and others were killed; in spite of the Turkish Muslim pogroms against the Greek Orthodox (e.g., Istanbul, 1955) up through the present day, which includes the conversion of the great Hagia Sophia Church of Constantinople into a mosque, together with numerous other ‘Hagia Sophia’ churches throughout Turkey.

Here’s another whopper:


Quote
“Christians and Muslims are two lungs of one Eastern body,” the Greek Orthodox Patriarch said, “and we condemn anything that harms the reputation of the forgiving Islamic religion, with which we have experienced the peace and fraternity.” (Daily Star)


I am not familiar with any “forgiving Islamic religion.” I am familiar with the supremacist and militant Islamic religion, whose holy book and prophet have set forth commands which determine its reputation:


Fight against those who believe not in Allah… (Quran 9:29)

Kill the mushrikun [unbelievers] wherever you find them… (Quran 9:5)

I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes. (Quran 8:12)

“I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah…” (Hadith from Sahih Bukhari, cited in Reliance of the Traveller, Entry on Jihad, o9.0, o9.1, o9.8, o9.9.)

Here is an especially scandalous statement from a few decades ago:

Quote
“The Prophet Muhammad is an apostle, He is a man of God, who worked for the Kingdom of God… When I speak against Islam, then I am not found in agreement with God.” — Patriarch Parthenius of Alexandria (Orthodoxos Typos 854, May 1982)


I could go on, but you get the idea.

Patriarchs and bishops who seek to cover over the anti-human bloodlust inherent in Islam do not help, they merely confuse, frustrate and demoralize the faithful, who see for themselves what Islam is all about. The faithful need clear Christian teaching and inspiring examples of confessors and martyrs, to help them stand firm in their own trials, when the challenge comes to their doors.

This is why it is essential to extol those rare Christian hierarchs, like Bishop Mark of Berlin, who choose to ignore the politically correct climate of the day, and instead pattern their statements after fearless Church teachers of every age, such as Sophronius of Jerusalem (7th c.), John of Damascus (8th c.), Gregory Palamas, (14th c.), Kosmas of Aitolia (18th c.), Fr. Seraphim Rose (20th c.), and New-Martyr Fr. Daniil Sysoev (21st c.).

The below article, which I originally posted a year ago, is worth revisiting in the hopes that other Christian leaders — whether Catholic, Coptic, Protestant or Orthodox — will take courage and find again that authentic Christian voice in this titanic struggle against the temporal and spiritual tyranny of Islamic jihad.

Interview with Archbishop Mark (Arndt), Pravmir, July 31, 2014

Q – How should Christians react to the terrible epidemic of the genocide of our brothers and sisters in Christ in Syria, Metochia, Kosovo and Serbia? Is this active Islamization or the actions of radical extremists, bandits who only assume the mantle of Islam? His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia, during a Liturgy in Christ the Savior Cathedral in Moscow read to his Russian flock the epistle of the Antiochian Patriarch, in which he painfully called to the whole world for help, stressing that the situation is at such a horrifying stage that help is needed not only through prayers to God, but in action. But in Christian society the reigning opinion is that we can help exclusively by prayer.

A – I reject the expression “help exclusively by prayer.” That we Christians are only capable of prayer is a false notion. Of course, prayer is our foundation and greatest strength. But if we think that all we can do is pray, we will go astray. Yes, we must pray, but we must also understand that people are often forced by circumstances to soften one’s language. If the Antiochian Patriarch says this, he bases it on the experience of his own nation, where Christians and Muslims always lived in peace. I think that it is incorrect to say that there are only extremists at work there.

Reading the Quran, you will see that all of this lies at the foundation of Islam. Extremism exists, of course. Other Eastern hierarchs openly state that they have known about this particular aspect of Islam all their lives. I often serve in Jerusalem. There, for instance, on the feast of the Holy Trinity, right next to the church a muezzin cries from his tower that they believe in the One God Who has no children, no Son and Holy Spirit, etc. He has no compunction to do so, though these people are not really extremists. What is this? Open, unabashed propaganda against Christianity! They know full well what they do, spewing these slogans during the main Christian holiday of the Pentecost, the celebration of the birth of the Church Herself.

Islam is at its core anti-human. Look at Ramadan—this is the mortification of the human being, of the human body. I saw how people were taken to hospitals during their observance of Ramadan. All day they eat nothing, drink nothing even during baking heat, and at night the cram there stomachs to the point of losing consciousness—it is madness! One must look truth in the eye: this is all anti-human, it is directed against humanity.

Yes, there were times when Muslims tried to live in peace with their neighbors, they even acknowledged that we Christians are people, too. But for many, those times have passed, and now they reveal who they really are.

Q – In other words, when some say that what is happening in Syria and other fundamentally Christian nations, it is only political, not a religious war against Christianity, it is untrue? Regardless, can we say that the Christians who are murdered for their faith today are martyrs.

A – There is an intentional war being waged against Christians. Kosovo was the first in the list of such genocide from Christian territory. Then Chechnya. Understand what happened, a Christian nation was simply given away to the Muslims. The destruction of churches continues, tortures, wild fanaticism, murder. Kosovo, Chechnya, Syria, Egypt…

Q – The next goal for these people, whether they are extremists or not, is to declare Russia Muslim. What are we to do, strengthen our prayers?

A – The most important thing is to be real Christians. This means constant participation in the Mysteries of the Church. If the Lord grants someone the crown of martyrdom, it means the person earned it and must accept it with dignity.

_______

Ralph Sidway is an Orthodox Christian researcher and writer, and author of Facing Islam: What the Ancient Church has to say about the Religion of Muhammad. He operates the Facing Islam blog.

Re: Orthodox Bishop Mark of Berlin: A Voice in the Wilderness [Re: Tomassus] #412433 07/26/15 10:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Orthodox Catholic Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
I think Pope Francis and others like him have a much better perspective on this than Archbishop Mark.

Christians have their fanatics too, historically and in contemporary times.

We must follow the spirit of the Gospel throughout and that is where the true "Voice in the Wilderness" is!

Alex

Re: Orthodox Bishop Mark of Berlin: A Voice in the Wilderness [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #412438 07/27/15 05:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 318
desertman Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 318
Except that those frequently referred to as "Christian fanatics" in our time are very often those who were formerly known as simply being "orthodox".

Re: Orthodox Bishop Mark of Berlin: A Voice in the Wilderness [Re: Tomassus] #412440 07/27/15 08:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,585
Michael_Thoma Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,585
Westboro and a lot of the televangelist types would fall into the unorthodox fanatic category as far as I'm concerned

Re: Orthodox Bishop Mark of Berlin: A Voice in the Wilderness [Re: Tomassus] #412442 07/27/15 11:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 576
B
bergschlawiner Offline
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 576
When I was stationed in Munich and went to the ROCOR cathedral there for 3 years in 1977 there was a young priest who was a convert called Father Mark. I am guessing this is the same Mark!

Last edited by bergschlawiner; 07/27/15 11:35 AM.
Re: Orthodox Bishop Mark of Berlin: A Voice in the Wilderness [Re: bergschlawiner] #412444 07/27/15 01:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Orthodox Catholic Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
What was he like then? wink

Alex

Re: Orthodox Bishop Mark of Berlin: A Voice in the Wilderness [Re: Tomassus] #412445 07/27/15 01:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 294
M
Mark R Offline
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 294
Other factors go in to the decrease of Christians in the Middle East other than persecution. Christians are the ones most in touch with modernity and are more susceptible to distance themselves even from their Churches attracted by whatever gobbledegook Western modernity has to offer. This is not to downplay the existence of anti-Christian persecution, but it is one factor. This helps one also to understand the Muslim perspective, a main factor of which is anti-modernity. Under colonialism, Christian minorities were often favored for being more educated, skilled or more like the colonials than the Muslim masses and had some privileges. Next to them, the Muslim majority constituted an underclass. Muslims who now have taken over roles previously filled by Christian (and Jewish) minorties are torn between the goodies enjoyed their counterparts in the West (many of which are no-nos in Islam) and wanting to have their families not to be exposed to bad influences from modernity. It is the same thing a lot of Christians in the West have had to deal with in recent decades, though WRIT LARGE because there is virtually no transition phase from the past to modernity in Muslim societies...which has been a long, drawn out process in the West.
I like Archbishop Mark, and I don't doubt that he is pastorally motivated, but I don't think he grasps that it is a lot more than persecution. A lot of Christians have the luxury of a "take it or leave it" attitude to their own faith, which is seldom an option for Muslims, unless you are a Turk or live in the West or are prepared to be like an outcast. I have to admit that I like what he says because it is different from people who seem to only make excuses for violence in Islam. You can state that Christians can be violent too, but when was the last time it was on such a scale as that which exists when associated now with Islam? We Christian, like it or not, have crossed into modernity. The world of Islam has not, and still resorts to violence.
Islam is a big MacGuffin in Western political discourse. It is a motivating bogey on the Right. The Left uses Islam as a battering ram against everyone else because Islam can be a more potent weapon now that the Left's arsenal is spent: "Remove this cross or that holiday, or you offend Muslims..." Usually Muslims are not instigators of this.
I must say, in my old neighborhood, I have been shamed by some of the charity practiced by a Lebanese Muslim owned restaurant.

Re: Orthodox Bishop Mark of Berlin: A Voice in the Wilderness [Re: Tomassus] #412448 07/27/15 03:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,585
Michael_Thoma Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,585
I don't think it's even "Westernism", its plan and simple secularism. It's found even in the "East" - China, Japan, India, Russia, etc. Sure there are religious folks all over these places, but society pushes secularism. Religiosity sways with the tides - the old saying was Buddhist on Monday, Shinto on Tues, Confucian on Wed, atheist on Thurs, etc?

Re: Orthodox Bishop Mark of Berlin: A Voice in the Wilderness [Re: Mark R] #412450 07/27/15 03:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Orthodox Catholic Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Aye, sir!

Alex


The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2019 (Forum 1998-2019). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3