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Communion With Lutherans #413815 11/16/15 07:06 PM
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Ray S. Offline OP
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Well, it appears the Pope said the following:
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The most noteworthy question for the Pope was posed by a woman who asked why she could not join with her husband in receiving Communion at a Catholic church. “I ask yourself what you’re asking me,” Pope Francis replied. “I ask myself the same question.”


Source: Pope tells Lutheran woman: decide for yourself whether to receive Communion in Catholic Church

I don't know what to say. Nothing shocks me anymore about the modern Popes.

Last edited by theophan; 11/18/15 03:24 PM. Reason: Header spelling
Re: Communion With Lutherans [Re: Ray S.] #413831 11/17/15 05:10 PM
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Peter J Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray S.
I don't know what to say.

Hi Ray. FWIW I believe that our Orthodox brethren have, for quite some time, not known what to say about our attitude toward intercommunion.

Re: Communion With Lutherans [Re: Ray S.] #413832 11/17/15 08:06 PM
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byzanTN Offline
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I don't know what to say. Nothing shocks me anymore about the modern Popes.


I don't know what to say either, especially about the current pope. But you know, popes come and popes go, blessed be the name of the Lord.

Re: Communion With Lutherans [Re: Ray S.] #413833 11/17/15 08:33 PM
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Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
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He explicitly stated he could not give blanket permission. Case by case permission is already available.

"If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the Diocesan Bishop or Conference of Bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same Sacraments [Baptism, Confirmation, and the Most Holy Eucharist] licitly also to other christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed." [Code of Canon Law, 844 §4]

Re: Communion With Lutherans [Re: Ray S.] #413834 11/18/15 12:48 AM
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bergschlawiner Offline
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I have noticed many Lutherans receiving Communion in their churches with much more respect than in many RC churches, especially amoung young people.

Re: Communion With Lutherans [Re: Ray S.] #413835 11/18/15 12:54 AM
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bergschlawiner Offline
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Does anyone really think that if a Lutheran or for that matter anyone of another faith would receive Commmmunion in a large big city church or a big outside Mass that it would even be noticed! For our own churches I have seen in Slovakia Communion was given to everyone who approached the Chalice. Even seen it happen in Orthodox churches where the priest only was told later that the visitors were not Orthodox.

Re: Communion With Lutherans [Re: Ray S.] #413836 11/18/15 09:50 AM
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theophan Offline
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Christ is in our midst!!

It's interesting that His Holiness says this is not his competence since it was the competence of his predecessor of thrice blessed memory, Pope St John Paul II to have inserted in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that Catholics may not receive in ecclesial communities of the Reformation since they do not possess Apostolic Orders and, thus, cannot consecrate the Eucharist in their own communities.

Maybe this is a prelude to the upcoming joint celebration of the Reformation in two years.

Bob

Re: Communion With Lutherans [Re: bergschlawiner] #413837 11/18/15 12:48 PM
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Recluse Offline
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Originally Posted by bergschlawiner
For our own churches I have seen in Slovakia Communion was given to everyone who approached the Chalice. Even seen it happen in Orthodox churches where the priest only was told later that the visitors were not Orthodox.


When I was Catholic, I had sometimes heard the priest tell the people that Holy Communion is only for those Catholics in good standing and properly prepared and that all others can approach for a blessing. Other times, I had seen everyone in attendance approach to receive (and I knew some of them to be protestant). I think the priest should make a statement like above, and anyone who approaches to receive who is not in Communion or prepared will be subject to 1Cor 11:27. I am perplexed by pope Francis' statement.

On the Orthodox side, I hear many priests make the same statement about being in good standing and properly prepared. However, many times, Orthodox numbers are much smaller....so the priest usually knows most of the parishioners. If you are going to be visiting an Orthodox Church that is not your parish, most priests encourage a phone call or brief introduction prior to services so that he knows you will be receiving.

Many times, I have seen people approach the chalice in the Orthodox Church who are visiting for the first time and when they step up to the Chalice, the priest asks them if they are Orthodox, and which Church they attend.

Re: Communion With Lutherans [Re: Ray S.] #413838 11/18/15 03:23 PM
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theophan Offline
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A bit disconcerting when the Chief Bishop says he does not have in his competence to know the rules of his own Church, that is that those not in communion are not to approach unless they approach because they cannot reach ministers of their own. So there in Rome is a woman who belongs to a local Lutheran community who just wants to go back and forth as if there were no differences. Isn't that syncretism?

I also have to note that there is an agreed statement of the international dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Lutheran World Federation. The question that keeps coming up in relation to that statement is how it will play out practically. The statement seems to see a time when there will be a mutual recognition of orders. But what no one seems to remember is the statement of Pope St John Paul II that closes the door on women's ordination forever. How could there be a mutual recognition of orders and sacrament, let alone sharing of both, with this obstacle in the way?

Bob

Re: Communion With Lutherans [Re: theophan] #413839 11/18/15 04:20 PM
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byzanTN Offline
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Good questions, Bob. I don't have any answers. Wish I did.

Re: Communion With Lutherans [Re: byzanTN] #413841 11/19/15 09:31 AM
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theophan Offline
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It's also interesting to note that, for Catholics, Pope St John Paul II took up the idea of the Catechism of the Catholic Church precisely to dispel the kind of confusion that came along after the Vatican Council of the 1960s. It was against the idea that everything that had gone on before was to be discarded and everyone could "wing it."

Sadly, Pope Francis with his off-the-cuff remarks during his pontificate has seemed to open up the confusion again in several areas. Mercy is his reason, but mercy can be something dangerous if it means that everything is up for grabs.

I notice His Holiness speaks of common Baptism with Lutherans. While that is true, he apparently doesn't remember that it is not Baptism, but Confirmation/Chrismation that admits one to the Eucharist according to Apostolic practice and theology. It is only the papal indult of Pope St Pius X in 1910 that upset the Apostolic order in the Latin Church and opened the door to the idea that it is only Baptism that admits to the Eucharist and that Confirmation/Chrismation is not really necessary--as some theologians are currently teaching.

Bob


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