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Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
#414011 12/12/15 03:55 PM
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Ray S. Offline OP
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Here is a link to the news story:
Uninvited Preachers Make Brazen Entrance

Here is the video of the event:
News Report Video

It appears the law officers said no crime was committed so they can't do anything about it.


Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
Ray S. #414013 12/12/15 04:48 PM
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Ray:

Christ is in our midst!!

What I find most disturbing is that the police say there was no crime committed so they can make no arrests.

I guess it's time to hire security for Liturgy.

Bob

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
Ray S. #414105 12/19/15 04:45 PM
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What about disturbing the peace? I find it bizarre that someone would interrupt ANYBODY'S service. I mean, I tend to start foaming at the mouth when I drive by a Romanian Pentecostal church; I actually did think of saying something to a man I saw walking in,but it IS a free country. I wouldn't like it if a pentecostal interrupted my liturgy. I think the Lord's command about doing unto others applies here.
If these pastors are ex-Moslems, why on earth don't they preach Christ in the mosque? Sounds like they traded one fundamentalism for another.

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
Fr. Al #414106 12/19/15 11:45 PM
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We live in a time when we can be called upon to give an account of our faith at any moment and by anyone.

But are we up to the challenge? Are we conversant sufficiently with the sources of our faith to counter such attacks as we see here?

Some years back there was a systematic "Evangelical" protest against Marian shrines throughout the U.S. - this is not simply a fringe movement by this group of former Muslims.

But they are smart - they don't actively try to convert their former co-religionists since they know Catholics won't respond as they would . . .

And we need to lose the naivete in thinking that the Protestant world likes us and that the more "Protestant" WE become spiritually, culturally and liturgically etc. will mean that it will be more open to join Catholicism.

This is exactly the spirit in which I was raised in my post-Vatican II Catholic high school where it was widely assumed that we have with the Protestants a wide range of unity in terms of faith essentials and, with the liturgical changes, the Latin Church has taken the next important step in meeting Protestantism half-way in a process that will ultimately lead to a reunion. What absolute nonsense!

We need our own preachers who know the Bible and the Fathers very well to counter the simplistic, cherry-picked scriptural exegesis of these, yes, fundamentalist heretics.

We cannot oppose these and others if we regard them as being already "very close to us." In fact, they differ from us in every which way.

And one of the best places for all of us to start is with St Theophan the Recluse and his published letters in a book entitled, "Preaching Another Christ."

It is a book that every Catholic and Orthodox Christian should study very closely!

Alex

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
Ray S. #414108 12/20/15 02:38 AM
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First paragraph explains it all.


Earlier today I came across a video about a GROUP OF FORMER MUSLIM MEN who converted to an Evangelical Christian group.  They call themselves Koosha Las Vegas. In the video we see “preachers” have strayed from their street corners and actually began preaching in Catholic churches!

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
Orthodox Catholic #414113 12/20/15 06:54 AM
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Thanks for the book recommendation, Alex. I just found it on Amazon - truly Amazon will rule the world one day. wink

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
Orthodox Catholic #414123 12/20/15 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic

And we need to lose the naivete in thinking that the Protestant world likes us and that the more "Protestant" WE become spiritually, culturally and liturgically etc. will mean that it will be more open to join Catholicism.

This is exactly the spirit in which I was raised in my post-Vatican II Catholic high school where it was widely assumed that we have with the Protestants a wide range of unity in terms of faith essentials and, with the liturgical changes, the Latin Church has taken the next important step in meeting Protestantism half-way in a process that will ultimately lead to a reunion. What absolute nonsense!


Protestantism is not monolithic, nor is post Vatican II Catholocism.

On both banks of the Reformation there is increasing polarization--in each entity--dividing tradionalists from revisitonists/modernists.

For example, within the broad Lutheran family there are the very "progressive" Evangelical Lutherans (both in America and Canada) and the more conservative North American Lutheran Church and the even more conservative Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and its Canadian equivalent.

Frankly, the LC-MS and NALC have more in common with traditional Catholics and Orthodox than they do with the "progressive" folks who still sport the Lutheran label.

Same thing could be said of the various conservative Anglicans.

It also is worth noting that Benedict XVI was always careful to write about "Lutherans and Protestants", recognizing that they are distinct entities.

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
Orthodox Catholic #414124 12/20/15 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
This is exactly the spirit in which I was raised in my post-Vatican II Catholic high school where it was widely assumed that we have with the Protestants a wide range of unity in terms of faith essentials and, with the liturgical changes, the Latin Church has taken the next important step in meeting Protestantism half-way in a process that will ultimately lead to a reunion. What absolute nonsense!

We need our own preachers who know the Bible and the Fathers very well to counter the simplistic, cherry-picked scriptural exegesis of these, yes, fundamentalist heretics.

We cannot oppose these and others if we regard them as being already "very close to us." In fact, they differ from us in every which way.

And one of the best places for all of us to start is with St Theophan the Recluse and his published letters in a book entitled, "Preaching Another Christ."


That is a very good book. I also recommend this one.

https://uncutmountainpress.com/book...tion-of-second-vatican-council--english/

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
theophan #414129 12/21/15 01:25 AM
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Try interruppting a Muslim prayer meeting and see if the cops can't do anything.

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
Ray S. #414130 12/21/15 02:09 AM
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Much of modern evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity bears little resemblance to what I would call classical Protestantism. Classical Protestantism is almost non-existent, but it was a great force which often restrained the excesses of the mighty and provided consolation and strength to the lowly and has contributed to a still remaining level of decency in the cultures of the North in Europe and in anglophone lands.
Evangelicalism, though a product of this culture, is several paces removed from it and bears as little resemblance to its source as garden variety Catholicism today does to its classic form.

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
Thomas the Seeker #414133 12/21/15 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Thomas the Seeker
Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic

And we need to lose the naivete in thinking that the Protestant world likes us and that the more "Protestant" WE become spiritually, culturally and liturgically etc. will mean that it will be more open to join Catholicism.

This is exactly the spirit in which I was raised in my post-Vatican II Catholic high school where it was widely assumed that we have with the Protestants a wide range of unity in terms of faith essentials and, with the liturgical changes, the Latin Church has taken the next important step in meeting Protestantism half-way in a process that will ultimately lead to a reunion. What absolute nonsense!


Protestantism is not monolithic, nor is post Vatican II Catholocism.

On both banks of the Reformation there is increasing polarization--in each entity--dividing tradionalists from revisitonists/modernists.

For example, within the broad Lutheran family there are the very "progressive" Evangelical Lutherans (both in America and Canada) and the more conservative North American Lutheran Church and the even more conservative Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and its Canadian equivalent.

Frankly, the LC-MS and NALC have more in common with traditional Catholics and Orthodox than they do with the "progressive" folks who still sport the Lutheran label.

Same thing could be said of the various conservative Anglicans.

It also is worth noting that Benedict XVI was always careful to write about "Lutherans and Protestants", recognizing that they are distinct entities.


This is a very important point sir, and I thank you for raising it!

Yes, the conservative Anglican and Lutheran communities are truly Catholic and a number of them have "jumped ship" so to speak to become Orthodox and Catholic.

I don't see them as being "Protestant" in the classical - or any - sense.

And, yes, Protestantism as a whole isn't monolithic - my RC teachers of former years, together with the post-Vatican II church as a whole, created their own idea of "Protestantism" which did not reflect the myriad varieties and "textures" of that disparate group.

My point is simply that I saw a kind of "social construction" of Protestantism in my high school and university years by Catholics "in the spirit of Vatican II" which was a "reified" one and to which they adapted Catholicism believing that the more they adapted, the greater the likelihood that reunion will take place.

In fact, as you know, only the conservative, "High Church" Anglo-Catholic and Evangelical-Catholic groups have tended to join the Ordinariate and/or Orthodoxy.

Alex

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
byzanTN #414134 12/21/15 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by byzanTN
Thanks for the book recommendation, Alex. I just found it on Amazon - truly Amazon will rule the world one day. wink


You are more than welcome Charles!

The great thing about St Theophan's book, which ia a published series of his letters to an Orthodox Christian who started attending meetings of an evangelical preacher and started to have doubts about his faith, is that he covers so many issues that, today, we ourselves appear to have come to take for granted as a result of the constant barrage of preaching to which we are subject to via television and radio.

Amazon is amazing - I once found an actual 150 bead "Pater Noster" on it - a single string of beads with a tassle at one end and a Cross on the other.

Alex

Last edited by Orthodox Catholic; 12/21/15 09:47 AM.
Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
bergschlawiner #414135 12/21/15 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bergschlawiner
Try interruppting a Muslim prayer meeting and see if the cops can't do anything.


Yes, but the question is whether there would be anything left of those who did the interrupting when the cops eventually got there . . .

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
Orthodox Catholic #414137 12/21/15 12:07 PM
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Thanks for the above posts. It occurs to me that we in the west operate with blinders on much of the time. After Vatican II, Latin churchmen seemed convinced the whole world loves Catholics and is waiting to commune with us. Nothing could be less true. Much of the ecumenism has been a one-way street leading away from Catholicism. I think the Orthodox do a better job of identifying their enemies and seeing through their true motives.

Re: Protestants Interrupting Roman Catholic Mass
byzanTN #414141 12/21/15 03:09 PM
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Very well said Charles!

Alex

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