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Anti-Orthodox ECs? #413856
11/23/15 07:38 AM
11/23/15 07:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
New England
Peter J Offline OP
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Peter J  Offline OP
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New England
How do you cope with Eastern Catholics who make polemics-against-the-Orthodox into some kind of personal mission?

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Peter J] #413857
11/23/15 08:44 AM
11/23/15 08:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,283
Texas
Athanasius The L Offline
AthanasiusTheLesser
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Ignore and shun.

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Peter J] #413859
11/23/15 10:48 AM
11/23/15 10:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,316
Hollidaysburg, PA
theophan Offline
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Peter J:

Christ is in our midst!!

Some time ago I reponded to someone asking how to deal with a "Roman Bully." I think the same can be adapted to your situation.

Apparently whoever this is doesn't know anything about Vatican II or what the Catholic Communion of which he/she belongs has directed its members in the Eastern Catholic Churches to live in relation to Orthodox Christians.

http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/127287/Re:%20Help%20with%20a%20Roman%20bully...#Post127287

Be assured of this. You are my brother in Christ. There is no other way of putting this. We are bound by the Apostolic Faith. We may have received it with a slightly different expression, but we have a common bond in the first millenium. Like relatives who have been estranged, we have to find a way to restore our relationship. It won't be easy; it won't happen overnight. But we can no longer beat each other up physically or verbally.

Bob

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Peter J] #413861
11/23/15 01:34 PM
11/23/15 01:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,351
Virginia!
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John
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John
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I have occasionally run into such people. You need to find out where they are at spiritually and educationally. If they are the type of person that is more Catholic than the pope you can try quoting official documents (like the following). Most often, however, they would not listen even if the pope visited them in person.
Quote
Catholic Catechism:
838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."

It's best to pray for them. Then be polite to them and joke about it: "Yes, we know you reject what the Catholic Church teaches about the Orthodox." Then change the subject.

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Athanasius The L] #413864
11/23/15 05:15 PM
11/23/15 05:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
New England
Peter J Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Athanasius The L
Ignore

I probably should -- especially when names like "rabid donatist" come into the conversation (b/c of the conservative Orthodox position on intercommunion with other Christians) -- but I have to admit I find it difficult to do so at times.

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Peter J] #413866
11/24/15 05:34 AM
11/24/15 05:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,316
Hollidaysburg, PA
theophan Offline
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Quote
conservative Orthodox position on intercommunion with other Christians


Peter J:

Christ is in our midst!!

The Catholic Church does not practice "intercommunion" either. The guidelines on who may receive in a Catholic Church specify that there are certain Churches that may have their members approach if they cannot readily receive the Mysteries from clergy of their own. But there are no open communion practices that would allow any Christians of the Reformation communities to do so.

And why not?

Because the Catholic Church, like the Orthodox Churches, believes that one must adhere to the same eucharistic theology as the community in which one communes. Unlike some Christian communities, we do not adhere to the idea that each person may bring his/her own theory or theology to the reception of the Eucharist. By approaching, one says by this action that one adheres to all the teachings of the community in which one is then communing and is in complete agreement with the priest who serves the Liturgy and with his superiors in the episcopate.

So there is much more to receiving the Mysteries than simply dropping by and approaching when it is communion time.

Bob

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: theophan] #413875
11/24/15 04:00 PM
11/24/15 04:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
New England
Peter J Offline OP
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Originally Posted by theophan
The Catholic Church does not practice "intercommunion" either.

Amen.

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Peter J] #413884
11/28/15 11:02 AM
11/28/15 11:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
Portland, OR USA
Lester S Offline
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I'll be following this thread. I, being Orthodox - now, try not to let my love grow cold. I still maintain relations with my fellow Latin/Byzantine Catholics; it's not rose-colored, but I'm thankful things can maintain warmth and well-groundedness.

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Peter J] #413885
11/28/15 06:07 PM
11/28/15 06:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,316
Hollidaysburg, PA
theophan Offline
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Peter J:

Christ is in our midst!!

I conducted a funeral today in a Catholic church. At communion, the priest stopped everything and reminded the congregation of the Catholic Church's rules regarding the reception of communion--Catholics if they were properly prepared and non-Catholics who were invited to cross their arms to receive a blessing if they chose to come forward. He referred to the guidelines printed inside the pew book.

Well, unlike so many many other funerals I've conducted where everyone approached, there were very few who approached--though there were many people who looked at each other as if to wonder what this was all about. There are many who approach the Mysteries because they are used to the standard Protestant invitation to anyone who is a baptized Christian to feel welcome to receive.

So, despite any confusion, the Catholic Church does not practice open communion.

Bob

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Peter J] #413888
11/29/15 03:14 PM
11/29/15 03:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 4
Texas, USA
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Parresia Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter J
How do you cope with Eastern Catholics who make polemics-against-the-Orthodox into some kind of personal mission?


I have seen this amongst Roman Catholics as well, particularly among the more traditional crowd, who I would definitely count myself in. And, being Roman Catholic myself, I have experienced this in the opposite direction from Orthodox Christians.

My own personal take on this is that while there are definitive doctrinal questions which currently keep us apart, that our most legitimate ecumenical efforts are geared towards each other, and we should increase this work as much as we are able. The Catholic Church, particularly on the Roman side of the house, has much to get in order for that to happen.

I pray that God makes it so.

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Peter J] #413895
11/30/15 10:15 AM
11/30/15 10:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,316
Hollidaysburg, PA
theophan Offline
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Peter J:

Christ is in our midst!!

I have experienced this phenomenon in the West, too. For some people the only way they can define their Christian commitment is to be AGAINST someone else. To me, that shows a dangerous spiritual immaturity. It is true that there are serious theological differences among the various Apostolic Churches and between and among the various communities of the Reformation.

However, I truly think we need to understand that we need to work together for our common good, even when we cannot share at the Lord's Table. We have a common problem with our brethren being slaughtered around the world because they have made the same commitment we have. For starters, we need--IMHO--to advocate for them with a common voice. If we cannot do that, we fail to be who we say we are.

We also have much to do to eradicate poverty in so many corners of the world and we need not compete with each other to get that done.

When the Lord comes, He will be asking what we did for the least of His brethren, not how often did we beat another down because he/she did not worship with us. We are all called to love unconditionally, even those who hate and maltreat us. We are called to take up our cross when they "insult you and say all manner of evil against you for My sake."

Bob

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: theophan] #413898
11/30/15 02:55 PM
11/30/15 02:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 508
Kennebunk, Maine
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Utroque Offline
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Originally Posted by theophan
Peter J:

Christ is in our midst!!

I have experienced this phenomenon in the West, too. For some people the only way they can define their Christian commitment is to be AGAINST someone else. To me, that shows a dangerous spiritual immaturity. It is true that there are serious theological differences among the various Apostolic Churches and between and among the various communities of the Reformation.

However, I truly think we need to understand that we need to work together for our common good, even when we cannot share at the Lord's Table. We have a common problem with our brethren being slaughtered around the world because they have made the same commitment we have. For starters, we need--IMHO--to advocate for them with a common voice. If we cannot do that, we fail to be who we say we are.

We also have much to do to eradicate poverty in so many corners of the world and we need not compete with each other to get that done.

When the Lord comes, He will be asking what we did for the least of His brethren, not how often did we beat another down because he/she did not worship with us. We are all called to love unconditionally, even those who hate and maltreat us. We are called to take up our cross when they "insult you and say all manner of evil against you for My sake."

Bob
Thank you, Bob. Perhaps it's a good time to ponder those words of Papa Francesco to our Ecumenical Patriarch on today's blessed feast. Feast of St. Andrew

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Peter J] #414040
12/14/15 05:00 PM
12/14/15 05:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 11
Canada
MariaCatherine Offline
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What are some of the objectionable behaviors of these Catholics?

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Parresia] #414084
12/17/15 04:31 PM
12/17/15 04:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 4
Texas, USA
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Parresia Offline
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Originally Posted by Parresia
Originally Posted by Peter J
How do you cope with Eastern Catholics who make polemics-against-the-Orthodox into some kind of personal mission?


I have seen this amongst Roman Catholics as well, particularly among the more traditional crowd, who I would definitely count myself in. And, being Roman Catholic myself, I have experienced this in the opposite direction from Orthodox Christians.

My own personal take on this is that while there are definitive doctrinal questions which currently keep us apart, that our most legitimate ecumenical efforts are geared towards each other, and we should increase this work as much as we are able. The Catholic Church, particularly on the Roman side of the house, has much to get in order for that to happen.

I pray that God makes it so.


I should say also that I have seen the reverse as well. I have personally tried to have good conversations on Orthodox forums, and have experienced polemics more than once. Unfortunately, this seems to go both ways.

Re: Anti-Orthodox ECs? [Re: Peter J] #414434
01/08/16 06:38 AM
01/08/16 06:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 72
USA
jova Offline
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USA
I experience that in Roman Catholic circles. It's even directed against Eastern Catholics which they see as not really in communion with Rome frown

I try to educate them, but the hardcore 'bullies' are unwavering frown frown

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