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Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: Tomassus] #414941 02/12/16 05:02 PM
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marusia Offline
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I am watching as well, did I hear correctly a 30 paragraph declaration? Interesting how it included the violence in Ukraine.


Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: marusia] #414942 02/12/16 05:05 PM
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The common declaration is available here in 7 languages.

Section 25, referring to Greek Catholics in Ukraine, states that "the ecclesial communities which emerged in these historical circumstances ["unitatism"] have the right to exist and to undertake all that is necessary to meet the spiritual needs of their faithful, while seeking to live in peace with their neighbours. Orthodox and Greek Catholics are in need of reconciliation and of mutually acceptable forms of co–existence."

Last edited by Latin Catholic; 02/12/16 05:12 PM.
Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: Tomassus] #414945 02/12/16 05:12 PM
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marusia Offline
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Yes it is thank you. The parts I wanted to see was section 26 and 27 in reference to Ukraine

Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: marusia] #414946 02/12/16 05:13 PM
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Yes, 26 and 27 are also very interesting paragraphs.

Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: Latin Catholic] #414947 02/12/16 05:18 PM
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marusia Offline
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Sorry I wasn't able to paste them ,but the announcers mentioned Ukraine and my ears perked up

Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: marusia] #414948 02/12/16 05:28 PM
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The sections most relevant to Ukraine seem to be these (see link above for full text):

Quote
25. It is our hope that our meeting may also contribute to reconciliation wherever tensions exist between Greek Catholics and Orthodox. It is today clear that the past method of “uniatism”, understood as the union of one community to the other, separating it from its Church, is not the way to re–establish unity. Nonetheless, the ecclesial communities which emerged in these historical circumstances have the right to exist and to undertake all that is necessary to meet the spiritual needs of their faithful, while seeking to live in peace with their neighbours. Orthodox and Greek Catholics are in need of reconciliation and of mutually acceptable forms of co–existence.

26. We deplore the hostility in Ukraine that has already caused many victims, inflicted innumerable wounds on peaceful inhabitants and thrown society into a deep economic and humanitarian crisis. We invite all the parts involved in the conflict to prudence, to social solidarity and to action aimed at constructing peace. We invite our Churches in Ukraine to work towards social harmony, to refrain from taking part in the confrontation, and to not support any further development of the conflict.

27. It is our hope that the schism between the Orthodox faithful in Ukraine may be overcome through existing canonical norms, that all the Orthodox Christians of Ukraine may live in peace and harmony, and that the Catholic communities in the country may contribute to this, in such a way that our Christian brotherhood may become increasingly evident.


Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: Tomassus] #414949 02/12/16 07:51 PM
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Francis
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Pope of the Catholic Church

Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: Tomassus] #414950 02/12/16 09:05 PM
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It is interesting that the Eastern rite Churches are called only ecclesiastical communities. The articles are interesting in that they avoid the Russian role in Ukraine and seem to undermine the justice of Ukrainians defending themselves from aggression. The text therefore seems to join the Moscow Patriarchate's call for "peace" in Ukraine that would in fact undermine Ukrainian independence. The pope's agreeing to a statement about ending schism in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and dealing only with "canonical" means seems to place him at odds with the rapidly growing Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Kyiv Patriarchate. If he aims at curtailing the patriotic actions of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and its support of national defence and independence he is likely to alienate them. They are also little likely to follow his lead if he wishes to cut off ecumenical contacts with the Kyiv Patriarch. One wonders how the Patriarch of Constantinople will react to this Rome-Moscow agreement.

Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: jjp] #414952 02/13/16 12:20 AM
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Good to see you here JJP.

Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: Tomassus] #414954 02/13/16 09:33 AM
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Rev Peter Galadza, Acting Director and Kule Family Professor of Liturgy Metropolitan Andrey Sheptytsky Institute of Eastern Christian Studies (Ottawa) commented on joint statement signed in Havana:

"The inability to get any kind of reference in the joint statement to foreign aggression in Ukraine is a major flaw in an otherwise decent statement - Ukrainians worldwide will be very disappointed. And Antonii Pakanych's (metripolitan of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Moscow Patriarchate) prominence in the Moscow Patriarchate delegation without anyone even remotely representative of Eastern Catholicism (not to mention Ukr. Gr. Catholicism) is also very unfortunate."

Source.

Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: Nelson Chase] #414955 02/13/16 09:42 AM
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Thanks! I still lurk from time to time but this is the kind of good news that I can't resist enjoying.

Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: Tomassus] #414963 02/13/16 02:52 PM
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Rev Andriy Chirovsky "very initial comments" on joint declaration signed in Havana today.

"All three paragraphs about Ukraine are very disappointing.
#25 basically calls us [Eastern Catholics] an “ecclesial community” Moscow wins.

“'uniatism', understood as the union of one community to the other, separating it from its Church, “ is an ambiguous definition. Again, we are just a community. I remember the Quadripartite Commission in 1990: “communities of Catholics of the Byzantine Rite” Studous avoidance of calling us CHURCH.
#26 No mention of foreign aggression. Moscow wins.

"Churches refraining from taking part in confrontation” This refers to our Church supporting a defensive war. remember the Feb 5 Press conference, where Ilarion accused us of inciting conflict
#26 The “canonical” language is a way to put down the UOC-KP and UAOC. Moscow decides what is canonical. Catholics need" to contribute to this” instead of "supporting the schismatics” as Ilarion accused us on Feb 5. Moscow Wins"

Source: Religious Information Service of Ukraine Facebook page


Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: Tomassus] #414964 02/13/16 10:46 PM
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Forgive me for sounding cavalier about this -- and I do have less at stake than many of you -- so take this as an outsider's observation. It strikes me that Ukrainian and otherwise Greek Catholic commenters and citations fail to see beyond their own relatively ad hoc interests. One cannot expect every topic to be given fair airing in such a brief, introductory meeting between the two -- shall we say -- patriarchs. Given the statue of the interlocutors, it should be no surprise which ecclesial bodies are deemed canonical...it is the meeting of those two church leaders only and not involving any others. The situation in Ukraine is complex and no one party, Greek Catholic or any of the other Orthodox churches can speak for the whole. This is a start. As bad as thing are in Ukraine... and in Russia, they are no where near as bad as Christians have it in the Mideast.

Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: Mark R] #414974 02/14/16 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark R
Forgive me for sounding cavalier about this -- and I do have less at stake than many of you -- so take this as an outsider's observation. It strikes me that Ukrainian and otherwise Greek Catholic commenters and citations fail to see beyond their own relatively ad hoc interests. One cannot expect every topic to be given fair airing in such a brief, introductory meeting between the two -- shall we say -- patriarchs. Given the statue of the interlocutors, it should be no surprise which ecclesial bodies are deemed canonical...it is the meeting of those two church leaders only and not involving any others. The situation in Ukraine is complex and no one party, Greek Catholic or any of the other Orthodox churches can speak for the whole. This is a start. As bad as thing are in Ukraine... and in Russia, they are no where near as bad as Christians have it in the Mideast.


Well said! And regarding the Middle East and our involvement there (far from benign and innocent), let me just offer a quote from Patriarch Kirill in a recent interview:

"“A large-scale war should be averted at all costs,” he said, adding that it should be the “number one priority for the Americans, the Russians, and many other people with a sensible perspective on what is happening.”

Amen.

Re: MP denies reports about a Kirill-Francis meeting in Latin America [Re: Alice] #414976 02/14/16 09:36 PM
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"For the peace of the whole world,
the well being of the Church of God,
and for the unity of all,
let us pray to the Lord".

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