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#416777 - 02/27/17 09:44 PM Re: Leaving the Catholic Church [Re: The young fogey]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 976
Nelson Chase Offline
Nelson Chase  Offline

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 976
Originally Posted by The young fogey
What's funny is considering that the papacy is the only real sticking point between the two sides, at least as we see it, the Pope really isn't much to do with my conversion, though Nelson is of course right (I think the Orthodox literally can't call a council as he suggests).

I have come to see the Papacy, in the moderate form that it has historically taken, is essential to orthodoxy. Vatican I really was a victory for the moderates given that the ultramontanist wanted so much more than what was defined. I believe Blessed John Newman and his response to Vatican I confirm my sentiments. The Pope should only act when he is compelled to act for the good of maintaining orthodoxy and communion between the Churches. (I wish the Holy Father would do so now given the controversy over divorce persons and Holy Communion)

I'm still simpatico with the Orthodox idea of a communion of churches run largely by custom; the thing is I believe in that and I'm a Western Catholic (albeit one with a foot in the East), convinced that this church through the centuries has got the goods. It hasn't fallen into schism or worse.

The Catholic Church would benefit much from returning to an ecclesiology that placed more emphasis on the Church as a communion of Churches. I think Pope Benedict XVI was sympathetic to that idea. Given the Papal idolatry that seems to have gripped many Catholics in the West in the modern era, a return to this could be helpful (especially with the enigmatic papacy of our current Holy Father). At the same time, I would be scared if some of the local Western Churches had more autonomy. Perhaps, in the future, when the progressives from the post-Vatican II era are all gone the Church can return to orthodoxy and then move to a more synodal form of governance. A good start would be giving the Eastern Catholic Churches full autonomy. That would go a long way.

To respond to the original question about leaving the Catholic Church. I would advise against it. The Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus Christ founded. To leave her (even for Orthodoxy) would be breaking communion with His Church. From a Catholic point of view, it would be damaging to your soul. Also, if you are married with a family, and they are not on board with your conversion, that may be damaging to your marriage. If it is not possible to attend the Eastern Catholic Church, then I would suggest going to Vespers at the Russian Church on Saturday and Mass on Sunday at a local Roman Church. I will pray for you and your family.

#416785 - 03/02/17 04:04 AM Re: Leaving the Catholic Church [Re: Nelson Chase]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,706
The young fogey Offline
The young fogey  Offline

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,706
Nelson is right about Vatican I vs. the ultramontanists. The church and the papacy aren't what many think.

By "a communion of churches run largely by custom" I assume a conservative church like the Orthodox at their best.

Leaving the church is "grave matter" (it's seriously wrong) as we say in the Latin Church, which is one of the criteria for mortal sin but not by itself a mortal sin (the other criteria are sufficient reflection, that is, I know it's wrong, and full consent of the will, that is, I freely do it). We don't presume to say one is in mortal sin, let alone hellbound (we never declare any person to be in hell), but it's "at your own risk." No matter how you say it, Eastern or Western, it's dangerous!

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