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#417134 - 06/20/17 06:07 PM Re: Bi-ritual bishops? [Re: Percy Gryce]  
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Nelson Chase Offline
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I can't but help to think of these two quotes by Pope Emeritus Benedict:

Quote
A kind of ecumenical dogma seems to be developing here which needs some attention. Quite likely it began with this train of thought: for intercommunion with the Orthodox, the Catholic Church need not necessarily insist on acceptance of the dogmas of the second millennium. It was presumed that the Eastern Churches have retained the traditional form of the first millennium, which in itself is legitimate and, if rightly understood, contains no contradiction to further developments. The latter after all only unfolded what was already there in principle in the time of the undivided Church. I myself have already taken part in attempts to work out things like this, but meanwhile they have grown out of hand to the point at which councils and the dogmatic decisions of the second millennium are supposed not to be regarded as ecumenical but as particular developments in the Latin Church, constituting its private property in the sense of "our two traditions". But this distorts the first attempt to think things out into a completely new thesis with far-reaching consequences. For this way of looking at it actually implies a denial of the existence of the Universal Church in the second millennium, while tradition as a living, truth-giving power is frozen at the end of the first. This strikes at the very heart of the idea of Church and tradition, because ultimately such an age test dissolves the full authority of the Church, which is then left without a voice at the present day.

Source: Joseph Ratzinger, Church, Ecumenism and Politics, Ignatius Press, 1987.


Quote
As to the Greek ­Melkite Catholics declaring their complete adhesion to the teaching of Eastern Orthodoxy, it is necessary to take into account the fact that the Orthodox Churches today are not in full communion with the Church of Rome, and that this adhesion is therefore not possible as long as there is not a full correspondence in the profession and exercise of the faith by the two parties...

...We know that the doctrine concerning the primacy of the Roman Pontiff has experienced a development over time within the framework of the explanation of the Church’s faith, and it has to be retained in its entirety, which means from its origins to our day.


While I certainly see Eastern Catholic Churches as Orthodox Churches in communion with Rome, this communion means the acceptance and recognition that the teachings of the Catholic Church are Orthodox. If they are indeed Orthodox, and I believe they are, we can't deny them or else what is the point of being in communion with a Church we don't see as holding the Orthodox faith?

#417196 - 07/08/17 12:44 AM Re: Bi-ritual bishops? [Re: Nelson Chase]  
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Protopappas76 Offline
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Vatican II is a council of the Catholic Church, it is not properly speaking an ecumenical council. (See the statement of the Holy Synod of the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church. Doubt it? Read it on the website of the eparcjy pf Newton. Vatican II was a teaching council, but we must be honest, as HH Maximos IV said, "that it reflects a Western theology with mere nods to the East."

#417197 - 07/08/17 12:57 AM Re: Bi-ritual bishops? [Re: Percy Gryce]  
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Protopappas76 Offline
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The Churches are equals. The Bishop of Rome presides as "Father", as "primus inter pares" it is not the Chuerch of Rome as superior over all the other Churches of the communion of the Catholic Church, yet that , so often, is what happens. The talk of the "great esteem" for the Eastern Churcjes pronunced by Rome is so often given lie by its actons - denial of synodal authrity over the Churches of tbe diaspora, imposition of a "Congregation for the Eastern Churches" run by a Roman crdinal telling patriarchs and synods what to do is insulting and demeaning. "By their deeds you shall know them." Cardinals givenn have precedence over patriarch? Not even a token Eastern Catholic on the "Council of Cardinals." Its time that the Roman Church take a god strong look at their own actions regarding the Eastern Churches.

#417402 - 09/08/17 12:54 AM Re: Bi-ritual bishops? [Re: Percy Gryce]  
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Protopappas76 Offline
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Protopappas76  Offline
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Quoting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, actually the Catechism of the ROMAN Catholic Church" or quoting the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, which should more appropriately be called the "Code of Canons Imposed on the Eastern Churches Contrary to their own Holy Synods" is somewhat circuitous reasoning. Kind of like saying "It's so because I said its so..." The Catholic Church is a communion of equal Churches, not a monarchy with serfs." I believe in the "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church" proclaimed and lived by the Fathers of Church. I do not believe in an ultramontanism that would cause the first bishop of Antioch (and Rome) to weep.

Last edited by Protopappas76; 09/08/17 12:59 AM. Reason: missing line
#417405 - 09/08/17 12:20 PM Re: Bi-ritual bishops? [Re: Protopappas76]  
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ajk Offline
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Originally Posted by Protopappas76
Vatican II is a council of the Catholic Church, it is not properly speaking an ecumenical council. (See the statement of the Holy Synod of the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church. Doubt it? Read it on the website of the eparcjy pf Newton. the statement of the Holy Synod of the Melkite Greek-Catholic ChurchVatican II was a teaching council, but we must be honest, as HH Maximos IV said, "that it reflects a Western theology with mere nods to the East."
Please provide a working link for "the statement of the Holy Synod of the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church...on the website of the eparcjy pf Newton," or some other working link.

#417666 - 10/25/17 05:05 PM Re: Bi-ritual bishops? [Re: ajk]  
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Protopappas76 Offline
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Protopappas76  Offline
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Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by Protopappas76
Vatican II is a council of the Catholic Church, it is not properly speaking an ecumenical council. (See the statement of the Holy Synod of the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church. Doubt it? Read it on the website of the eparcjy pf Newton. the statement of the Holy Synod of the Melkite Greek-Catholic ChurchVatican II was a teaching council, but we must be honest, as HH Maximos IV said, "that it reflects a Western theology with mere nods to the East."
Please provide a working link for "the statement of the Holy Synod of the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church...on the website of the eparcjy pf Newton," or some other working link.


https://melkite.org/bishop-john

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