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Re: Breathing With Both Lungs [Re: Irish_Ruthenian] #418373
06/30/18 10:07 AM
06/30/18 10:07 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,923
MD
ajk Offline
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ajk  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Do you understand that Eastern Catholics are supposed to be "Orthodox in Communion with Rome,"
Originally Posted by ajk
I do not as used here.
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
What do you mean "as used here?"
With your understanding as you have amply demonstrated here in your diatribe. In my opinion. based on your response, it set you on the wrong course. There is an approach that I have observed -- in the BBC especially -- that would have it that we demonstrate how Eastern, or even Orthodox, we are by disparaging the West. I believe in a different path, for instance:

Originally Posted by ajk

Several years ago I had occasion to prepare talks on the general topic of dogma. One of the first slides of my talk asked:

Quote
A Failure of our Church ?

To effectively articulate why, as eastern, orthodox Christians we are, and why one should be Catholic – we, who are living (though perhaps rather imperfectly) the desired unity.


And as I have posted elsewhere on this forum:

Quote
I do think that in general an adequate Eastern Catholic articulation of the Catholic faith, which I profess to be orthodox, is lacking.
link
A Failure of our Church ? link 1 , also A Failure of our Church ? link 2

Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
...and if we are, then we hold to those distinctives of Orthodox theology, soteriology, eclessiology, etc.
Originally Posted by ajk
Yes but Eastern, not necessarily Orthodox but very often also Orthodox.
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
This is waffling, if I am correctly understanding what you are saying.
There is a large area of agreement but not total. If all that is required is an Eastern articulation of theology one can dispense with the West and even more so if not in communion with the West. So the presentation that results is one sided: Here is the worst of plodding Western, Catholic theological opinion and here the purity and eloquence of the Orthodox faith -- now choose. As you put it.:

Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Either we are Orthodox, as were the first to enter into the Unia and the Union of Brest, or we are not ... Pick a side and go there. [/b]
So you're not a two lung guy; that they all may be one then, choose "a side" of the Body of Christ, the one with the lung. I say again:

Originally Posted by ajk
The excessive Vostochnik who looks deep enough in the mirror should see the eastern-image version of that rightly criticized " Roman Catholics of the more conservative bent." Neither Eastern nor Western triumphalism is the Way.
Keep looking in that mirror.

Re: Breathing With Both Lungs [Re: Gueranger] #418374
06/30/18 10:18 AM
06/30/18 10:18 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,923
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ajk Offline
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ajk  Offline
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Originally Posted by Gueranger
AJK, thank you for your reply. It is reassuring for me. Were you raised Byzantine Catholic?
I'm Eastern Catholic "Ruthenian" (but from the other side of the Carpathian mountains by birth and law), grew up in the Latin church but with Eastern exposure.

Re: Breathing With Both Lungs [Re: Gueranger] #418538
09/06/18 09:16 PM
09/06/18 09:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 5
Charlottetown, PE, Canada
RyanOwens Offline
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RyanOwens  Offline
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Having read this article now, I have some pretty significant issues with other aspects of it as well as the quote you've highlighted in the OP. To whit:

Quote
The fundamentals of this spirituality are absolutely beautiful, but it’s a beauty can’t be found by living merely on–or for–the bells and the incense and the blessed grapes and all the other relatively trivial stuff.


I am very certain that for someone like, say, Saint John Chrysostom who dedicated tremendous time and effort to codifying the Divine Liturgy, those blessings, bells, incense, vestments etc. are pretty bloody important. To claim that the "external" is somehow trivial is to say that Sacraments are, deep down, trivial. It is to say that wedding bands are trivial. It is to say that Icons are trivial. They are not trivial since their external signs reveal to our sinful eyes the great reality which they contain themselves--realities which we, in our weakness, could never grasp. These are extremely useful helpmates in our path to theosis, not mere ornamentation, decoration and triviality.

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