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Re: Where Can I Find [Re: Tim] #295757
07/21/08 04:51 PM
07/21/08 04:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 222
Pennsylvania
Mike L. Offline
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Mike L.  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 222
Pennsylvania
Is there a huge difference between Old Church Slavonic and Ukrainian? I remember reading that Russian evolved from OCS. Is Ukrainian similar in this regards? If so, if one were to study OCS would they be able to follow the Divine Liturgy at a Ukrainian service?

Re: Where Can I Find [Re: Mike L.] #295775
07/21/08 09:40 PM
07/21/08 09:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Kansas/UGCC
Diak Offline
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Diak  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Kansas/UGCC
"Huge" I don't know; but as with any modern regional development of a proto-language there will be many differences, not only in vocabulary but also in grammar (and sometimes even in pronunciation). Whether its Ukrainian and OCS or Italian and Latin this generally holds true.

You won't find much OCS in UGCC parishes anymore outside of very select feast days or services(Holy Week, Pascha, etc.) That being said it certainly never hurts to study OCS if for no other reason to be able to use and read the original Rome texts of the Rescension.

But if you are looking to be able to sing and participate in the Divine Liturgy at a Ukrainian Greek Catholic parish, Ukrainian is likely the first you will want to consider.

Re: Where Can I Find [Re: Diak] #296353
07/30/08 12:35 PM
07/30/08 12:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,217
Illinois
L
Lawrence Offline OP
Member
Lawrence  Offline OP
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L

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,217
Illinois

I now also have a copy of The North American Transliteration Of The Byzantine Mass published by the Icon Press.

First translation difference I've noticed already are the words "now and forever and ever" in the Ukrainian Catholic Rite booklet, it's written as "ee na veeki veechnee" while in the Byzantine Mass it's "i na viky vikiw" Obviously the pronounciation of the first 3 words is identical, but why is it "veechnee" in one and "vikiw" in the other.

Re: Where Can I Find [Re: Mike L.] #296359
07/30/08 01:21 PM
07/30/08 01:21 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 335
Milwaukee
T
Tim Cuprisin Offline
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Tim Cuprisin  Offline
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T

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 335
Milwaukee
Russian didn't "evolve" from Church Slavonic.

Church Slavonic is related to Bulgarian and Macedonian. It evolved from Old Church Slavonic, which was the language of Cyril and Methodius.

Church Slavonic was used as a literary language long before the rise of vernacular Slavic languages, but is a separate language from Russian or Ukrainian.

Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusyn and Rusyn are Eastern Slavic languages.

Re: Where Can I Find [Re: Tim Cuprisin] #296368
07/30/08 04:26 PM
07/30/08 04:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Dublin
F
Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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Fr Serge Keleher  Offline
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F

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Dublin
Tim is correct - Church-Slavonic did not evolve from either Russian or Ukrainian or Belarusyn, nor did any of them evolve from Church-Slavonic.

So far as I know, no one has yet done a serious etymological study of the collection of dialects sometimes called "Rusyn". But it's possible - there was some interest during the Soviet period. One would need to check the publications of the Ukrainian Academy of Arts and Sciences. The other possibility is the former Yugoslavia - which recognized "Rusyn" as a distinct language. There may be some published studies there (in what language, I couldn't even guess).

Back to my broken record - it is infinitely easier to learn the Ukrainian-Cyrillic alphabet (it took me one afternoon) than to drive yourself and everyone else crazy with transliterations. Bite the bullet, learn the alphabet, and life will settle down to smaller worries.

Fr. Serge

Re: Where Can I Find [Re: Lawrence] #418653
11/17/18 01:42 PM
11/17/18 01:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1
Canada
M
MZbor Offline
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MZbor  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1
Canada
Hello Lawrence, Did you in fact get a transliteration of the Ukrainian, for this Divine liturgy, or can you point me to one online? I also need one (although as has been mentioned in other posts, I personally *can* read and pronounce cyrillic, but others in the choir cannot). Thank you in advance.

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