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Recognizing and Venerating Saints of the East #418108
04/07/18 07:21 PM
04/07/18 07:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1
Philipines
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aldebaran Offline OP
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aldebaran  Offline OP
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Philipines
I'm having a bit of a trouble..

I have a devotion to Saint Claudia Procles and Saint Susanna the Myrhhbearer, even though i'm a practicing Roman Catholic.. Both saints are recognize and celebrated Saints by the Eastern Catholic Churches

I plan to introduce them to my country(Philipppines) but the problem is my country men wont accept them as Saints since they are not recognized and celebrated by the Roman Catholic Church...

I know One Saint of either church is A Saint in heaven since we are One Catholic Church.. but how do i convince them that its okay to publicly venerate Claudia and Susanna as Saints as a Roman Catholic...

Hopefully you can help me.... since I think this is one my ways to let my Country know that the Catholic Church is not the Roman One alone but is a much more beautiful and Larger Church

Thank you

Re: Recognizing and Venerating Saints of the East [Re: aldebaran] #418982
03/15/19 09:34 PM
03/15/19 09:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 64
ParanĂ¡, Brazil
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Santiago Tarsicio Offline
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Santiago Tarsicio  Offline
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God alone knows how many saints in heaven and who they are. Nothing prevents many people who died in the odor of holiness can be venerated privately or locally, an example of this is the Blessed and also the Servants of God. Therefore, I think it is not correct to say that the Catholic Church does not recognize both as saints, but only that there is no certainty that they enjoy the celestial glory, but by virtue of ancient tradition there are local cults. I am not aware that there was a formal and infallible statement (canonization), but only the voice of the Christian people. They are saints in the broad sense, not strict.

The Gospels are not very accurate, we know that a group of women visited the tomb of Jesus Christ. The Gospels give only a few names. Based on them, in the West there is the tradition of the Three Marias. In the East, Susanna was together, which is quite possible, since she was a follower of Christ and helped the Church with resources. But we know that she was a Christian and there is a moral certainty for her veneration, whether local or private.

Now, regarding Pilate's wife is more complicated in terms of truthfulness, we do not know if she really was a Christian. But it is neither absurd nor superstitious, so I see no problems, the veneration of it is the fruit of the voice of the Christian people. Not everything in the Church comes from higher decrees, especially if it is non-essential things. There is no reason to intervene or repeal devotions of the Christian people if there are no solid reasons.

Re: Recognizing and Venerating Saints of the East [Re: aldebaran] #419017
03/18/19 01:07 AM
03/18/19 01:07 AM
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Posts: 6,431
Hollidaysburg, PA
theophan Online content
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theophan  Online Content
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aldebaran:

Christ is in our midst!!

Welcome to the forum. I pray that your time here advances your growth in relationship with Our Lord Jesus Christ.

May I ask why you think it is imperative that you introduce these Eastern Catholic saints to your country where there are probably no Eastern Catholic Churches? You may always venerate and pray to these saints privately, but publicly introducing them is probably best left to your bishops. The risk you run is that of being misunderstood by those who don't understand that there are many different ways to approach the God we worship other than that of the Latin branch of the Catholic Church and still be a Catholic in good standing. Your insistence may lead you to scandalize some who don't understand the width and breadth of what it means to be Catholic. and that would be a sin. Remember what Our Lord said about causing one of His little ones to sin--and by that He did not necessarily mean a person under the age of maturity in years--there is also spiritual immaturity to consider. There are some members here who venerate Orthodox saints and they do so privately for their own reasons. So may I suggest you be careful.

Bob
Moderator

Re: Recognizing and Venerating Saints of the East [Re: aldebaran] #419047
03/19/19 08:24 PM
03/19/19 08:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
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Dear aldebaran,

Mabuhay Ang Filipinas!!

Ah yes, the veneration of saints of different Churches . . . Saints have always had their cults of veneration defined by territory based on church approval. Thus, a "Blessed" in the Roman Catholic tradition is, in fact, a Saint to be liturgically venerated but only within a defined locale as set down by the Church (one would need to ask for permission if one wished to venerate such a Blessed outside that definition). The same holds true in the Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches. A saint in the East can be canonized more than once or twice but each time the territory within which the saint's liturgical cult is celebrated is extended due to his or her devotional popularity.

In short, just as our esteemed Moderator Bob has discussed, the veneration of saints is always an ecclesial act. We do have the right, of course, to venerate anyone we like and from other Churches. In the Ukrainian Catholic Church, you will find places that have icons of the Pillars of Orthodoxy which include St Mark of Ephesus who left the Council of Florence and fought it to the end of his life. (I had once heard of a Ukrainian Catholic priest who wanted to establish a Brotherhood of St Mark of Ephesus . . .). Then there are those who honour the less, from the Catholic point of view, controversial saints and this really never raises eyebrows. Father Sergius Keleher (+memory eternal!), when he was in Toronto, used the St Herman Orthodox Calendar in his liturgical services and would read out all the names of the saints listed there for each and every day.

But, again as our Moderator has said, one needs to be sensitive and not give cause for scandal or upset (AJK on the other thread regarding Easter calculations could take note of this . . .kidding - don't want him to come after me with any more of his scientific facts . . . :)).

So Pope Liberius is not a saint in the West but he is in the East. St Claudia Procula has a long history of veneration as a Christian missionary in the East and, in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, so does her husband Pontius Pilate (Feastday in the Ethiopian and Eritream Orthodox Churches on July 2, in case you are interested . . .). I wouldn't go around promoting devotion to him though. It is best to stick with the known saints of an area or Church. Now, it you wish to promote particular Eastern saints that are also in the RC calendar and thus increase Latin Catholics" awareness of them, you could promote veneration for St John Chrysostom, St Basil the Great, St Gregory Nazianzus, St Cyril and st Athanasius of Alexandria etc. Best not to create controversy if one can avoid it! Salamat!

Re: Recognizing and Venerating Saints of the East [Re: aldebaran] #419104
03/27/19 03:25 AM
03/27/19 03:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
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Just a further comment. The Blessed New Hieromartyr Basil (Velichkovsky) of the Redemptorists, as we glean from his biography, implemented the practice of admitting all the local Orthodox saints for veneration in any Orthodox parish in western Ukraine that decided to come into union with Rome. This was for local veneration in the Ukrainian Catholic Church, of course. The Russian Catholic Orthodox Church (sic) kept all of their saints from their Orthodox heritage. Rome would sometimes admit Orthodox saints glorified by the Orthodox Churches alone into the Roman calendar such as St Sergius of Radonezh. The veneration of St Seraphim of Sarov, glorified in 1903 I believer, is quite popular in RC circles as well as EC ones. The New Martyrs of Libya, beheaded by ISIS were Copts (except for one of them who, when asked what his faith was, pointed to the headless corpses of the martyrs and bravely said, "What they believed, I believe" and joined them in a baptism of blood and heavenly glory). and they were glorified as saints by the Patriarchate of Alexandria one week later. Their icon is very popular as is their veneration and even the RC Archbishop of New York, as I saw in one photo, lifted a copy of that icon up in front of St Patrick's Cathedral.

I believe that when we venerate one another's saints we will do much to hasten the day for the unity of the Church for which our Lord prayed!


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