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Re: Peter, the Rock, the Keys & the Chair [Re: Utroque] #419303
06/06/19 12:52 AM
06/06/19 12:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 300
Virginia USA
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Irish_Ruthenian Offline
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Irish_Ruthenian  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 300
Virginia USA
Originally Posted by Utroque
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
9. Moreover, that every human creature is to be subject to the Roman pontiff, we declare, we state, we define, and we pronounce to be entirely from the necessity of salvation.

Nuts on that.


Yah, nuts on that! I tend to agree. On the other hand, Unam Sanctam was written at a time when western Europe was totally Catholic and there was a great deal of struggle between church and state, and they absorbed one another like nothing we know in our times, even in post-Soviet Russia. I also feel that the Latin word, "subesse" (to be under) does not have the same connotations as the English, "subject to" as it is often translated. Subesse is a little bit softer, and almost affectionate. But, you'd probably say "nuts to that", too! smile



LOL! Well, not exactly. I think we need a center of unity for the entire Church. My issue is not with having a single focused person who is the center of unity, but rather in the juridical manner in which that office plays out. And from what I have read, this is the Orthodox position also. Seems to me a "First Among Equals" who is truly "A Servant to God's Servant" would not be a bad thing. Having that servant heart, you know.

But.....there are a lot of other fish to fry in this mix also. Kind of sad, really. I remember my godmother coming back from an ecumenical meeting several years ago and telling me that as she listened to the various speakers drone on and on and on, she said she just wanted to stand up and scream "Stop talking and put our Church back together." I think a lot of us feel that way.

Re: Peter, the Rock, the Keys & the Chair [Re: Irish_Ruthenian] #419304
06/06/19 01:37 AM
06/06/19 01:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 542
Peabody, MA
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Utroque Offline
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Utroque  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 542
Peabody, MA
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
LOL! Well, not exactly. I think we need a center of unity for the entire Church. My issue is not with having a single focused person who is the center of unity, but rather in the juridical manner in which that office plays out. And from what I have read, this is the Orthodox position also. Seems to me a "First Among Equals" who is truly "A Servant to God's Servant" would not be a bad thing. Having that servant heart, you know.

But.....there are a lot of other fish to fry in this mix also. Kind of sad, really. I remember my godmother coming back from an ecumenical meeting several years ago and telling me that as she listened to the various speakers drone on and on and on, she said she just wanted to stand up and scream "Stop talking and put our Church back together." I think a lot of us feel that way.


Godmothers and grandmothers are always right! For a long time I have thought that the disunity between the western and eastern Apostolic and historically contiguous churches is a bishops problem, and that the burden is on them to "put the Church back together again" so to speak. Why there is no sense of urgency has often puzzled me. There seems to be a complacency that we are all "Unam Sanctam". We need a real Ecumenical Council now, or at least a permanent Synod of east and west to work out all the kinks that divide us! And they should not rest until they are done.

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