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Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch #419352 07/02/19 07:38 PM
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Santiago Tarsicio Offline OP
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In what Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople described as a "brave and bold" gesture, Pope Francis gave the patriarch a famous reliquary containing bone fragments believed to belong to St. Peter.

The bronze case contains nine of the bone fragments discovered during excavations of the necropolis under St. Peter's Basilica that began in the 1940s.

In the 1960s, archaeologist Margherita Guarducci published a paper asserting that she had found St. Peter's bones near the site identified as his tomb.

While no pope has ever declared the bones to be authentic, St. Paul VI announced in 1968 that the "relics" of St. Peter had been "identified in a way which we can hold to be convincing."

https://www.catholicregister.org/fa...relics-of-st-peter-to-orthodox-patriarch

An unprecedented gesture: Pope Francis, following the established ceremony repeated each year by the representative of the Ecumenical Throne and the Pope at the Church of Rome's Thronic Feast, both went to worship at the tomb of Apostle Peter in St. Peter’s Basilica. There, the Pope whispered to Archbishop Job of Telmessos that he wanted to send a gift to Constantinople to his brother Bartholomew, a gift for which his inspiration came during the evening prayer on the day of the Thronic Feast.

These were relics of St. Peter, contained in a reliquary placed in the pontifical chapel of the papal apartments of the so-called Vatican Apostolic Quarter.

The fact of this donation comes just one week after the conference held in Naples on June 20 and 21, on the importance, value and contribution of theology to the modern world, and especially to the Mediterranean world. A conference to which the Patriarch had sent an important message, and Pope Francis told delegates and journalists that "Brother Bartholomew is a precursor to many ideas that we, too, have embraced."

https://www.archons.org/-/pope-relics-st-peter

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Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: Santiago Tarsicio] #419355 07/03/19 01:37 PM
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And Traditional Latin Roman Catholics are having kittens over this.

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: Santiago Tarsicio] #419356 07/03/19 04:51 PM
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Common veneration of relics is one of the tools Pope Francis is using to foster ecumenical relations with the Eastern Orthodox Churches. In May, relics of St. Philip and St. Nicholas were transported to Turkey and Russia, respectively. They have been exposed for the veneration of the Orthodox faithful from the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Patriarchate of Moscow.

The transportation of the relics of St. Nicholas from the Italian city of Bari to Moscow is particularly noteworthy. It is the first time in 930 years that a part of the body of St. Nicholas has left Bari for veneration abroad. The novel action comes after a specific request Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill of Moscow made to Pope Francis when they met in Havana, Cuba in February 2016.

Archbishop Cacucci discussed the letter Pope Francis had sent him to about the Patriarch’s request. The archbishop explained that, for Pope Francis, the veneration of relics is “an essential part of the path toward the re-establishment of full communion among all Christians.” “The common veneration of saints help us to look at the ecumenical dialogue with a light of hope,” he said. St. Nicholas was one of the most venerated saints in Christianity even before his relics were taken from Myra, Turkey, by 62 sailors from Bari in 1087. Those sailors made an expedition to Myra to save St. Nicholas’ relics from Muslims who had conquered the city where St. Nicholas had lived and served as a bishop in the fourth century.

St. Nicholas’ relics will be in Moscow until July 12. They will then move to St. Petersburg for several weeks before returning to Bari July 28.

While the Russian Orthodox Patriarchate received St. Nicholas’ relics from the Church of Rome, the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople on May 8 welcomed relics of St. Philip in the Turkish city of Izmir, better known by its ancient Greek name: Smyrna. St. Philip evangelized that land and was martyred there. His relics had been secured in Rome’s Santi Apostoli Church since the sixth century. Last year, the relics were taken out and submitted to an examination. Then, they were exposed for a while for the veneration of the faithful.

Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople strongly advocated sharing the relics for veneration, as he is particularly devoted to St. Philip. The Catholic community joined the Patriarch in this request, and so one of St. Philip’s relic could return home. The Catholic Archbishop of Izmir Lorenzo Piretto personally forwarded the request to bring the relics to the Turkish city.

The common veneration of saints and relics is one area where ecumenism is performed today.

It echoes Pope Francis’ idea of “walking ecumenism,” which he described in an Oct. 12 meeting with members of the Conference of Secretaries of Christian World Communions. In his remarks, the Pope said that “it is important that theologians study, that they find agreement and identify disagreements.” But, he added, “ecumenism is done by walking and by walking with Jesus.” It is “a simple path, traveled with prayer and through helping one another.”

This “walking ecumenism” is also emphasized through the veneration of the same saints. Patriarch Kirill seems to think the same. Bari’s Archbishop Cacucci, having returned from Russia where he accompanied St. Nicholas’ relic, reflected on the phenomenon. “In fact, the translation of the relic is already an ecumenical dialogue, and this Patriarch Kirill said more and more times. When ecumenism does not involve only the top ranks of Churches or theologians, but rather involves the people of God, then it is possible to move forward.”

http://cbcpnews.net/cbcpnews/can-relics-unite-catholics-and-orthodox-pope-francis-thinks-so/

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: Irish_Ruthenian] #419357 07/03/19 05:01 PM
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Santiago Tarsicio Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
And Traditional Latin Roman Catholics are having kittens over this.


They want everything for them!

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Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: Irish_Ruthenian] #419358 07/03/19 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
And Traditional Latin Roman Catholics are having kittens over this.

To whom specifically do you refer?

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: ajk] #419359 07/03/19 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
And Traditional Latin Roman Catholics are having kittens over this.

To whom specifically do you refer?


Do you not know what a Traditional Roman Catholic is?

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: Irish_Ruthenian] #419360 07/03/19 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
And Traditional Latin Roman Catholics are having kittens over this.

To whom specifically do you refer?


Do you not know what a Traditional Roman Catholic is?

Based on your response, I have a much better understanding of "what a Traditional Roman Catholic is" than you have of what "specifically" means.

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: Santiago Tarsicio] #419361 07/03/19 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Santiago Tarsicio
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
And Traditional Latin Roman Catholics are having kittens over this.


They want everything for them!

So you know that this is their motivation for such piety? Are there possession of relics of the Apostles claimed by Orthodox? Does having them mean others do not?

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: Santiago Tarsicio] #419362 07/03/19 06:17 PM
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**sigh**

Okay.

1. Latin Mass only valid Mass

2. All Orthodox and Protestants going hell as schismatics.

3. No grace in Orthodox Sacraments.

4. Vatican II was an abomination.

5. Russia is to be converted to Roman Catholicism a la Fatima event.

6. Think Dimond Brothers and others like them

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: Irish_Ruthenian] #419363 07/03/19 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
**sigh**

Okay.

1. Latin Mass only valid Mass

2. All Orthodox and Protestants going hell as schismatics.

3. No grace in Orthodox Sacraments.

4. Vatican II was an abomination.

5. Russia is to be converted to Roman Catholicism a la Fatima event.

6. Think Dimond Brothers and others like them
This is not at all a fair characterization of the general term "Traditional Roman Catholic." The real issue, however, is that you have not answered my request. I'll ask again more explicitly. Give the forum a reference that you have, a link, to the comments or response that you have characterized as "having kittens." That way we can judge if they are indeed "having kittens" and who they are or if you are having another manifestation of what was already noted:
Originally Posted by Administrator
Irish Ruthenian: That you choose to refer to other Christians as "Protty" says more about you than it does about them. And what it says is not positive!

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: ajk] #419364 07/03/19 06:50 PM
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Santiago Tarsicio Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Santiago Tarsicio
Common veneration of relics is one of the tools Pope Francis...

http://cbcpnews.net/cbcpnews/can-relics-unite-catholics-and-orthodox-pope-francis-thinks-so/


I forgot to mention that such events occurred a few years ago.


Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by Santiago Tarsicio
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
And Traditional Latin Roman Catholics are having kittens over this.


They want everything for them!

So you know that this is their motivation for such piety? Are there possession of relics of the Apostles claimed by Orthodox? Does having them mean others do not?


No. My post was not serious; groups that are opposed to the Pope will always find reasons to oppose, I tried only to "imagine" what they could say or desire.

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: ajk] #419365 07/03/19 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
**sigh**

Okay.

1. Latin Mass only valid Mass

2. All Orthodox and Protestants going hell as schismatics.

3. No grace in Orthodox Sacraments.

4. Vatican II was an abomination.

5. Russia is to be converted to Roman Catholicism a la Fatima event.

6. Think Dimond Brothers and others like them
This is not at all a fair characterization of the general term "Traditional Roman Catholic." The real issue, however, is that you have not answered my request. I'll ask again more explicitly. Give the forum a reference that you have, a link, to the comments or response that you have characterized as "having kittens." That way we can judge if they are indeed "having kittens" and who they are or if you are having another manifestation of what was already noted:
Originally Posted by Administrator
Irish Ruthenian: That you choose to refer to other Christians as "Protty" says more about you than it does about them. And what it says is not positive!




Perhaps you could take note that I did not use the disparaging term "Traddies" in referring to those who hold to a very conservative and ultra-traditional Roman Catholic position.

No....probably not. Beating on me appears to be more fun.

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: ajk] #419366 07/03/19 07:18 PM
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Santiago Tarsicio Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
And Traditional Latin Roman Catholics are having kittens over this.

To whom specifically do you refer?


I think that Irish_Ruthenian made reference to such types (read the matter and the comments): https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/in...o-schismatics-resist-francis-to-his-face

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: Santiago Tarsicio] #419367 07/03/19 07:35 PM
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Santiago Tarsicio Offline OP
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Another link (see also comments - I did not need to search too much, are already known environments): https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-gives-away-relics-of-st-peter

Re: Pope Francis gives relics of St. Peter to Orthodox patriarch [Re: Irish_Ruthenian] #419368 07/03/19 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
**sigh**

Okay.

1. Latin Mass only valid Mass

2. All Orthodox and Protestants going hell as schismatics.

3. No grace in Orthodox Sacraments.

4. Vatican II was an abomination.

5. Russia is to be converted to Roman Catholicism a la Fatima event.

6. Think Dimond Brothers and others like them


I think that "sociological categories" present in the Church are reductionist, generalizing. When I use, I am fully aware of it, but sometimes it is necessary to categorize certain groups or environments so that there can be minimal dialogue or discussion. Personally I think the traditionalista "category" is something wider and varied.

Thus, there are loyal traditionalists to the Pope of Rome and who accept the Second Vatican Council as Orthodox, such traditionalists are present in the FSSP, for example: https://www.fssp.org/en/

So if it were necessary to describe the "traditionalist category," I would personally describe it differently:

Traditionalism opts for the liturgical and disciplinary form prior to the VCII. It has a historical emphasis on the Tridentine reform. It proposes neotomist theology. It has a pastoral and catechetical sources: hagiographies, Magisterium before the VCII, Tradition and Scripture. Limited dialogue with the scientific community. Tends to be moralistic in ethics; conservative and right wing in the political field.

Given these characteristics, there are several possibilities within traditionalism: from the acceptance of the VCII and fidelity to the Pope of Rome, to the repudiation of the CVII and the post-conciliar Magisterium (a proto-schismatic mentality).

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