The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
deaconjoseph2021, Kirah, Faithwisdom, Tredoslop, RPAW68
5,691 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 74 guests, and 105 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
by Santiago Tarsicio, March 17
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
by JLF, November 10
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Upgraded Russian icon corner
by The young fogey, October 20
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
by likethethief, June 12
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,939
Posts413,320
Members5,691
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,020
dochawk Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,020
I know, and have seen, the statements from Rome not to "poach" the Orthodox faithful and to direct evangelical efforts elsewhere,

All my searching, though, has found only a single, unsourced and slipshod article referring to a 1996 agreement between RCC and ROC.

Oh, and some sedevacantist sites criticizing Pope Francis for this as well.

These statements and the policy that unity should come between the churches, not by individuals swimming the Tiber, *do* exist, don't they?

Or its this another of the things "we all know" that "just ain't so" ?

hawk

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 77
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 77
This study by Monsignor Fernando Ocáriz is enlightening (I have not found an English version, only Portuguese and Spanish):

https://dadun.unav.edu/handle/10171/44329

https://opusdei.org/pt-br/article/evangelizacao-proselitismo-e-ecumenismo/

In short, Orthodox Churches have the status of particular churches, there is apostolic succession, it is as if the Pope of Rome were pope of these churches (even if there is no recognition of this by these particular Churches).

Last edited by Administrator; 09/27/19 05:27 PM. Reason: Clean up outdated language that is now deemed offensive by Rome
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 77
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 77
(But that does not alter evangelizing efforts, it is necessary to propagate faith and evangelize Church members, including the Orthodox, it is necessary to defend the integral faith and the dogmas in the ecumenical dialogue - the key word here is evangelization).

Last edited by Administrator; 09/27/19 05:28 PM.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,570
Likes: 4
John
Member
Offline
John
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,570
Likes: 4
Santiago,

I highly recommend you update your terminology to match that of Rome. Never forget that Rome has chosen to speak of the Orthodox Churches in the Catholic Catechism: 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." 322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." 323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist." 324

I expect that you use terminology picked up from older, pre-Vatican II documents. Since the, the Catholic Church has chosen to emphasize what we hold in common, while never neglecting the disagreements we need to work on. I suppose it could also be that English might not be your native language, so you are using older terminology that is simply not used anymore.

Thanks!
John

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 77
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 77
Originally Posted by Administrator
Santiago,

I highly recommend you update your terminology to match that of Rome. Never forget that Rome has chosen to speak of the Orthodox Churches in the Catholic Catechism: 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." 322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." 323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist." 324

I expect that you use terminology picked up from older, pre-Vatican II documents. Since the, the Catholic Church has chosen to emphasize what we hold in common, while never neglecting the disagreements we need to work on. I suppose it could also be that English might not be your native language, so you are using older terminology that is simply not used anymore.

Thanks!
John


Hello,

(Yes, for particular reasons English is my fourth or fifth language, I'm practicing, posting to forums is like an "exercise")

For me the Second Vatican Council is perfectly orthodox and Pope Francis a blessing from God, there is no reason to worry.

But I have no problems with other terminologies, but I understand that sometimes we can't "scandalize the weak", you're right. However, it is well known that post-conciliar terminology has been misused to spread relativism and confusion, so I find it more appropriate when it is necessary not to give room for reigning confusion and relativism, is a "provisional" decision which I deem appropriate. There are Catholics today who do not accept Catholic dogma, this is tragic.

Returned to thread, a document from the 1992 Congregation for the doctrine of the faith says:

"Since, however, communion with the universal Church, represented by Peter's Successor, is not an external complement to the particular Church, but one of its internal constituents, the situation of those venerable Christian communities also means that their existence as particular Churches is wounded."

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...h_doc_28051992_communionis-notio_en.html

That is, the absence of communion generates a wound in ecclesiality of the Orthodox churches, that is, it is a wound related to the Catholic faith and not only of a disciplinary or canonical nature.


Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5