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Pagan tradition in the church? #419687 12/03/19 01:20 AM
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hydra Offline OP
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Hello
First off some history
" Tree worship was common among the pagan Europeans and survived their conversion to Christianity in the Scandinavian customs of decorating the house and barn with evergreens at the New Year to scare away the devil and of setting up a tree for the birds during Christmas time."

"Modern Christmas trees originated during the Renaissance of early modern Germany. Its 16th-century origins are sometimes associated with Protestant Christian reformer Martin Luther, who is said to have first added lighted candles to an evergreen tree."

"Pope John Paul II introduced the Christmas tree custom to the Vatican in 1982. Although at first disapproved "

The Orthodox church / Bible is against tradition of man. Yet the church is following tradition of man. The only Tradition that is allowed is the tradition of the church for therapeutic reasons. If all the bibles in the world vanished the only church that will stand is the Orthodox church they say since it relies on its Orthodox traditions and no the bible some say.

Now to have a Christmas tree is not part of the Orthodox tradition, or christian tradition, or biblical tradition. Sure it is now in some aspects but it was not when it first started. Sure it looks nice but again its out of place when done inside the Church. It use to be not allowed, to done at home, to done outside the church, to done in the church banquet room, to inside the church. So whats next church services about the tree. Where is this Christian tradition? or does tradition not matter anymore?


Christ turned tables over for people doing things in the church when it should be outside, despite improper.

Re: Pagan tradition in the church? [Re: hydra] #419688 12/03/19 05:07 PM
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theophan Offline
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Christ is in or midst!!

hydra, welcome to the forum.

Your story about the tradition of the Christmas tree not being Orthodox is far from correct. St. Boniface (680–754), known in Church history as the Apostle to the Germans, was the first to use a fir tree to point out in his evangelizing work in what is today Germany that the God we worship is one that does not die each year but remains alive pointing toward heaven. St. Bonaventure is as much an Orthodox saint as any other from the period when Christendom was not marred by the schism.

Bob
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Re: Pagan tradition in the church? [Re: hydra] #419690 12/03/19 08:05 PM
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Through his resurrection Christ renewed all creation. He made all things new. The Church rightly utilizes the symbols found in creation to proclaim the Gospel.

Re: Pagan tradition in the church? [Re: hydra] #419692 12/03/19 09:57 PM
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Holy John Owen and Puritanism, Batman!!!

Sheeesh!!!! Some people will find anything they can to get their knickers in a knot!!

Re: Pagan tradition in the church? [Re: hydra] #419693 12/03/19 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hydra
Hello
First off some history
" Tree worship was common among the pagan Europeans and survived their conversion to Christianity in the Scandinavian customs of decorating the house and barn with evergreens at the New Year to scare away the devil and of setting up a tree for the birds during Christmas time."

"Modern Christmas trees originated during the Renaissance of early modern Germany. Its 16th-century origins are sometimes associated with Protestant Christian reformer Martin Luther, who is said to have first added lighted candles to an evergreen tree."

"Pope John Paul II introduced the Christmas tree custom to the Vatican in 1982. Although at first disapproved "

The Orthodox church / Bible is against tradition of man. Yet the church is following tradition of man. The only Tradition that is allowed is the tradition of the church for therapeutic reasons. If all the bibles in the world vanished the only church that will stand is the Orthodox church they say since it relies on its Orthodox traditions and no the bible some say.

Now to have a Christmas tree is not part of the Orthodox tradition, or christian tradition, or biblical tradition. Sure it is now in some aspects but it was not when it first started. Sure it looks nice but again its out of place when done inside the Church. It use to be not allowed, to done at home, to done outside the church, to done in the church banquet room, to inside the church. So whats next church services about the tree. Where is this Christian tradition? or does tradition not matter anymore?


Christ turned tables over for people doing things in the church when it should be outside, despite improper.


Contrary to your implications, friend, Orthodox and Catholic Christians neither worships nor venerates trees, wreathes or any other of the paraphernalia associated with Christmas, but simply place them in their homes and churches as an acknowledgement of the festivity associated with the Season. They have also been used, as others have said, as instruments of evangelization, when these things proved beneficial. Think of St. Patrick using the shamrock to illustrate the mystery of the Trinity. Druids may have worshiped the shamrock, but I'm sure the saint did not.

Re: Pagan tradition in the church? [Re: hydra] #419694 12/04/19 04:00 AM
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hydra Offline OP
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Quotes before from wikipedia. I know not the best source but just basic info.

Yes and no to come points made. Santa clause look is the coca cola brand. The the names of the reindeer are modern. The tree in church is also modern. When asking most older people they all say they NEVER saw a tree inside and find it improper. Sure some now say its ok now due to conditioning but what is ok inside does not mean its ok inside.

Maybe trees you feel are ok but when will compromising end? Since their is a long list of things which priest are discussing now to be ok which is not a traditional thing in the church. Its like the Orthodox church wants to copy non orthodox churches. And the slippery slope has cost the the Greek Orthodox church even now to be excommunicated and the ecumenical patriarch marked as a heretic by the Russian Orthodox church which that is another topic all together.

Point is you may say it is ok to be done in the church what traditionally has not but you also have to see where the line is drawn and not what you are use to seeing. You may feel it is ok but the where is the official evidence that it is ok?

Have you trees in your home, just like lipstick, pop music, improper dresses, etc but not in the church was the thing. Even priest are starting to get upset and have to make a commotion on some of things since people do not know how to draw the lines while other priest let it slide since they forget to draw the line. Going down a slippery and every year a new compromise for the worse.

If anyone has pictures of a Christmas tree inside the church from 80 years ago then lets see it.

Re: Pagan tradition in the church? [Re: hydra] #419696 12/04/19 02:51 PM
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Some of the earliest decorations used on evergreens in the home were natural fruits and berries, especially apples. Thge trees were sometimes called "Paradise trees" as a reminder of the Fall and thus the necessity of our Redeemer's Incarnation.

Almanacks which list the very old Menaion dates still include "Adam and Eve" on December 24.

Last edited by Thomas the Seeker; 12/04/19 02:52 PM.
Re: Pagan tradition in the church? [Re: hydra] #419700 12/05/19 01:48 AM
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hydra Offline OP
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I posted a reply and another post yet not showing. something wrong with this site?

Re: Pagan tradition in the church? [Re: hydra] #419701 12/05/19 09:22 PM
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Speaking of trees, saw this wonderful video about a church of forests in Ethiopia I'd like to share:

Church of Forests


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