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CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY #420287 09/05/20 04:25 PM
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jvf Offline OP
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TO ALL:
This is a message that I have sent to the Bishop of the Eparchy of Passaic and to the Bishop of the Diocese of Bridgeport.

Bishop:
Are you going to make a statement on voting moral responsibility in regards to pro "choice" political candidates
of any political party before Nov 3?
The biden/harris presidential ticket is the most anti Catholic and pro abortion presidential ticket in the history
of the American Catholic Church.
Many Catholics vote for pro "choice" abortion candidates because they do not hear from the Catholic Church that
voting for a pro "choice" abortion candidate is A MORTAL SIN!
Many Catholics believe that voting for a pro choice candidate is not against Catholic Church Doctrine because they do not
hear anything from their Shepherds.
Aren't you also the Shepherd of babies inside their mothers wombs?
Please make a statement on this before November 3.
I believe that it is your duty and the other Bishops on the USCCB.
SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

I hope that as many Catholics Latin and Byzantine and other Eastern Catholic Rites send a message like this to their Bishops.

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: jvf] #420288 09/06/20 06:57 PM
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theophan Offline
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Christ is in our midst!!

jvf:

There is a book that explores the moral responsibility of Catholics in relation to voting. It just came out and I have just been informed of it. Many Catholics do not know that the pro-choice ticket has essentially told Catholics, Orthodox Jews, Evangelicals, and Orthodox Christians who believe in traditional marriage, traditional morality, pro life issues to "take a hike" as the Catholic League has editorialized. So while the pro life Party may not hold all the values we hold dear, they seem to be the only place left for us to be in the political arena.

Bob

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: theophan] #420289 09/07/20 01:16 AM
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Utroque Offline
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It is not just a political party that is "pro-choice", but the law of the land upholds a woman's right to chose. There are no laws that require a woman to have an abortion; nor is it criminal, up to a point, for her to have one. Unfortunately the US Constitution makes no provision for the unborn. Why this should threaten Catholics. Orthodox Christians, Orthodox Jews, and Evangelical really puzzles me. They have long since decriminalized adultery, fornication, sodomy and other activities we feel are intrinsically evil. Should we fight to have those laws reinstated? Catholics, not to mention a cast of characters accused of witchcraft, were given a hard time in my neck of the woods at one time. Thank God we now have the freedom to chose what we firmly believe is truthful and just. In my mind, the burden is on us to protect the unborn by instilling in women the values that the US Constitution cannot. Trump (and his ilk) is "pro-anything" his instincts tell him will appeal to his base and get him elected!

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: jvf] #420291 09/07/20 04:19 AM
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I agree with Utroque, in addition in regard to Catholics specifically, there's no way to label President Trump "pro-life" considering Pope Francis's recent update of the Catechism declaring capital punishment off limits. President Trump re-instituted the federal death penalty. There's no way a Catholic can call him "pro-life", you can say he's claimed an 'anti-abortion' platform at best.

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: Michael_Thoma] #420292 09/07/20 05:20 AM
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Thomas the Seeker Offline
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"Prolife" is always--at least--a 2 D matrix between pro/anti abortion and pro/anti death penalty.

Sometimes additional dimensions are brought into this matrix.

But the fundamental question remains: Which are the most innocent of all lives?

And which live have been adjudicated guilty " beyond all reasonable doubt"?

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: jvf] #420293 09/07/20 01:16 PM
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Utroque Offline
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Of course, the unborn are the most innocent of all human life, but only a constitutional amendment will guarantee that will be honored in federal law. As they say, "Fat Chance!" On the other hand, we have the issue of slavery and the strength of the Abolitionist movement as a precedent to amend the constitution, but it took a civil war to bring that to a conclusion. Good grief.

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: Thomas the Seeker] #420302 09/09/20 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Thomas the Seeker
"Prolife" is always--at least--a 2 D matrix between pro/anti abortion and pro/anti death penalty.

Sometimes additional dimensions are brought into this matrix.

But the fundamental question remains: Which are the most innocent of all lives?

And which live have been adjudicated guilty " beyond all reasonable doubt"?

Have you not read of the cases where even a mentally disabled man, that could not have committed murder was charged, found guilty and executed? This cannot be wished away by people claiming be pro-life: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arridy

I believe the man executed was the son of Christian immigrants from Syria - I haven't been able to find what Church the Arridy family belonged to. Aridi is a name common to Druze in Lebanon, as well as others.

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: Utroque] #420303 09/09/20 12:17 PM
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jvf Offline OP
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I don't care what the secular laws say about the "choice" to murder an infant inside it's mothers womb.

I'm talking about the fact that there are perhaps millions of Catholics who still vote for pro choice/murder candidates as if there is nothing morally wrong about doing so
because NOTHING is ever said by the USCCB aka the voice of the American Catholic Church our Byzantine Bishops included about the FACT that voting for
a pro abortion implementer aka pro choic politician is a MORTAL sin!

Every one of us knows what the secular laws are on infant murder, what IS the MORAL LAW that Catholics must follow if they call themselves Catholics?
pro "choice" politicians are enablers of abortion murder because they implement the laws which allow abortion murder like NY governor cuomo who implemented
the most horrific abortion laws that allow murder of the infant even if it comes out alive!
CINO cuomo indirectly is an abortionist and his abortion laws will continually murder millions of infants inside their mothers wombs.

The democratic presidential ticket of biden/harris is the most pro abortion and anti Catholic presidential ticket in American history.

How can Catholic Bishops and Shepherds say nothing about Catholics who vote for pro "choice" abortion/murder political candidates.
Aren't Catholic Bishops SHEPHERDS OF THE INFANTS INSIDE THEIR MOTHERS WOMBS?

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: theophan] #420304 09/09/20 12:30 PM
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Bob:
"It is not just a political party that is "pro-choice", but the law of the land upholds a woman's right to chose."

Sorry Bob this does not "CUT THE MUSTURD"!

What about THE LAW OF GOD?
THOU SHALL NOT MURDER (kill)?

Our Bishops have a moral responsibility as Shepherds of human life inside their mothers wombs to speak out about
Catholic voting for pro "choice" abortion/murder politician implementers of abortion laws that continue unabated to murder infants inside their mothers wombs.

Anyone who votes for a pro choice political candidate , Catholics included are Enablers of abortion just like the politician who voted for it like cuomo-ny,
murphy-nj and lamont -ct.

The Catholic Church by not saying a word about those Catholics who continue to vote pro choice, abortion murder are also Enablers of abortion murder.

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: Michael_Thoma] #420305 09/09/20 12:37 PM
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jvf Offline OP
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"Have you not read of the cases where even a mentally disabled man, that could not have committed murder was charged, found guilty and executed? This cannot be wished away by people claiming be pro-life: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arridy"

This "mentally ill" man murdered.
Everyone who murders is "mentally ill".
That's what defense lawyers are for.
He was killed by lethal injection because he murdered another human being.

Catholics in war kill the enemy before the enemy kills them.
Catholics kill others in self defense to protect theirselves and loved ones.

All above are morally defensible to Catholic Church Doctrines.

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: jvf] #420308 09/09/20 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jvf
"Have you not read of the cases where even a mentally disabled man, that could not have committed murder was charged, found guilty and executed? This cannot be wished away by people claiming be pro-life: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arridy"

This "mentally ill" man murdered.
Everyone who murders is "mentally ill".
That's what defense lawyers are for.
He was killed by lethal injection because he murdered another human being.

Catholics in war kill the enemy before the enemy kills them.
Catholics kill others in self defense to protect theirselves and loved ones.

All above are morally defensible to Catholic Church Doctrines.

You apparently didn't read the link at all because this person was killed in a gas chamber.

Also:

On August 26, 1936, Arridy was arrested for vagrancy in Cheyenne, Wyoming, after being caught wandering around the railyards. The county sheriff, George Carroll, was aware of the widespread search for suspects in the Drain murder case. When Arridy revealed under questioning that he had traveled through Pueblo by way of a train after leaving Grand Junction, Colorado, Carroll began to question him about the Drain case. Carroll said that Arridy confessed to him.[6]

When Sheriff Carroll contacted the Pueblo police chief Arthur Grady about Arridy, he learned that they had already arrested a man considered to be the prime suspect: Frank Aguilar, a laborer from Mexico. Aguilar had worked for the father of the Drain girls and been fired shortly before the attack. An ax head was recovered from Aguilar's home.[6] But Sheriff Carroll claimed that Arridy told him several times he had "been with a man named Frank" at the crime scene.[6]

Frank Aguilar later confessed to the crime and told police he had never seen or met Arridy. Aguilar was also convicted of the rape and murder of Dorothy Drain, and sentenced to death. He was executed in 1937.[3][7]

After being transported to Pueblo, Arridy reportedly confessed again,[8] giving several versions of the murder in multiple confessions, with repeated errors of fact. At first he claimed a club was used in the murder. After authorities found an ax or hatchet had been used, Arridy later testified in interviews that he used an ax on the girl. This suggests that officers fed him this information, or provided it by leading questions.

When the case was finally brought to trial, Arridy's lawyer tried to gain a plea of insanity to spare his defendant's life. Arridy was ruled to be sane, while acknowledged by three state psychiatrists to be so mentally limited as to be classified as an "imbecile", a medical term of the time. They said he had an IQ score of 46, and the mind of a six-year-old.[6] They noted he was "incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong, and therefore, would be unable to perform any action with a criminal intent."[1][2]

Arridy was convicted, largely because of his false confession.[6] Studies since that time have shown that persons of limited mental capacity are more vulnerable to coercion during interrogation and have a higher frequency of making false confessions. There was no physical evidence against him. Barbara Drain, the surviving sister, had testified that Frank Aguilar had been present at the attack, but not Arridy. She could identify Aguilar because he had worked for her father.

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: jvf] #420317 09/10/20 03:52 PM
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theophan Offline
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Quote
Bob:
"It is not just a political party that is "pro-choice", but the law of the land upholds a woman's right to chose."

Sorry Bob this does not "CUT THE MUSTURD"!

What about THE LAW OF GOD?
THOU SHALL NOT MURDER (kill)?


jvt:

Christ is in our midst!!

Please note that I did not make the statement you attribute to me. the poster following me made that statement.

Bob

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: jvf] #420318 09/10/20 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jvf
Bob:
"It is not just a political party that is "pro-choice", but the law of the land upholds a woman's right to chose."

Sorry Bob this does not "CUT THE MUSTURD"!

What about THE LAW OF GOD?
THOU SHALL NOT MURDER (kill)?

Our Bishops have a moral responsibility as Shepherds of human life inside their mothers wombs to speak out about
Catholic voting for pro "choice" abortion/murder politician implementers of abortion laws that continue unabated to murder infants inside their mothers wombs.

Anyone who votes for a pro choice political candidate , Catholics included are Enablers of abortion just like the politician who voted for it like cuomo-ny,
murphy-nj and lamont -ct.

The Catholic Church by not saying a word about those Catholics who continue to vote pro choice, abortion murder are also Enablers of abortion murder.

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!



Since it was I, not Bob, who made the quote that you feel does not "cut the mustard", I will respond. That the law of the land upholds a woman's right to chose is a fact. There are a number of activities which the Catholic Church, and you and I as believers, deem intrinsically evil, that the law, as it stands in the U.S., does not consider criminal. I pointed this out in the same post. Must we leave the country because it does not maintain a Catholic Sharia? Our bishops have a moral responsibility to instill in their flock a deep sense of the Christian life to which all of us called, and be clear and forceful upholders of the church's teaching for those who believe. Their flock and other US citizens have a patriotic responsibility to vote for those candidates who they feel can best lead the country in these perilous times. Politicians are bound to uphold the laws as they stands, and to represent the plurality which is America. They are not "Abortionists" if they do so, and I am not an enabler of abortion. I am a United States citizen living in one of its oldest cities. I'll vote for the candidates who are best qualified to lead us.

Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: jvf] #420321 09/11/20 03:15 AM
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My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: CATHOLIC VOTING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #420335 09/19/20 05:37 PM
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Abortion murder of innocents inside and even outside their mothers wombs is NOT CONSCIENCE NEGOTIABLE!
THOU SHALL NOT MURDER (kill) IS THE 5TH COMMANDMENT OF GOD!

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

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